atom feed36 messages in org.apache.maven.usersRE: Next release?
FromSent OnAttachments
Peter DonaldDec 12, 2002 2:20 am 
Jason van ZylDec 12, 2002 3:02 am 
Rademacher TobiasDec 12, 2002 3:06 am 
Jason van ZylDec 12, 2002 3:16 am 
Rademacher TobiasDec 12, 2002 3:49 am 
Jason van ZylDec 12, 2002 3:53 am 
Henning P. SchmiedehausenDec 12, 2002 5:19 am 
Rafal KrzewskiDec 12, 2002 6:48 am 
Nicola Ken BarozziDec 12, 2002 6:57 am 
Henning P. SchmiedehausenDec 12, 2002 9:13 am 
nick...@bnpparibas.comDec 12, 2002 9:26 am 
Henri YandellDec 12, 2002 10:43 am 
Jason van ZylDec 12, 2002 11:18 am 
John CaseyDec 12, 2002 3:08 pm 
Lester WardDec 12, 2002 3:30 pm 
Aslak HellesøyDec 12, 2002 5:29 pm 
John CaseyDec 12, 2002 7:38 pm 
Reinhard SpisserDec 13, 2002 4:44 am 
Henri YandellDec 13, 2002 5:01 am 
Lester WardDec 13, 2002 7:47 am 
James CE JohnsonDec 13, 2002 8:05 am 
di...@multitask.com.auDec 13, 2002 8:41 am 
John CaseyDec 13, 2002 8:48 am 
John CaseyDec 13, 2002 8:57 am 
James CE JohnsonDec 13, 2002 8:59 am 
Colin SampaleanuDec 13, 2002 9:07 am 
Henri YandellDec 13, 2002 9:08 am 
John CaseyDec 13, 2002 9:12 am.properties
Aslak HellesøyDec 13, 2002 9:13 am 
Colin SampaleanuDec 13, 2002 9:28 am 
John CaseyDec 13, 2002 9:47 am 
Henning P. SchmiedehausenDec 14, 2002 10:56 am 
di...@multitask.com.auDec 15, 2002 2:06 pm 
Henning P. SchmiedehausenDec 16, 2002 1:40 am 
di...@multitask.com.auDec 16, 2002 7:20 am 
Henning P. SchmiedehausenDec 16, 2002 9:35 am 
Subject:RE: Next release?
From:Aslak Hellesøy (asla@netcom.no)
Date:Dec 12, 2002 5:29:39 pm
List:org.apache.maven.users

Just a tip: Every time I need to figure out how to do something and it isn't covered in the docs (which is most of the time, since Maven doesn't have an automatic self-documentation feature yet), I always look at the plugin source code. That is, the jelly script. Now, as an exercise, I looked at the java plugin's plugin.jelly to find the solution of the problem you mentioned as an example:

I do a file serach for "<javac", and I find the right plugin (java). In that file, I search for "<javac" again, and I find that the path with id java.compile.src.set defines the classes to compile. Then I dig some more to find out how to define that path, and I've got it. Allright, it might take 10 minutes.

The thing I want to stress here is that if you think the docs are too poor but continue to use the program, then why not contribute yourself with some docs about the problems you just solved? I'm really tired of freeriders that complain about open source software. You get something for free, remember. There is a whole spirit about OSS that needs to be grasped here.

Sure, good docs are always needed for newbies. -And newbies are sometimes the best to produce docs, because they see the problem from a different angle. So contribute!

Aslak

-----Original Message----- From: John Casey [mailto:jdca@00java.com] Sent: 13. desember 2002 00:08 To: Turbine Maven Users List Subject: Re: Next release?

+1000000000

As a relative newbie to Maven, but a veteran of Ant, I can't agree enough. I have personally made an ass out of myself several times asking stupid questions on the irc channel. However, for me these were basic questions that I couldn't find the answer to. Once, I was referred to a project on a completely unrelated site as an example. Or, in the worst case, I have spent _hours_ digging through someone else's code (and consequently someone else's mind) looking for where a particular feature is implemented, so that I could see _how_ it works.

Perfect example: Try to create a project.xml that only compiles _some_of_ the classes in the source tree you're referring to. I had to check the Commons-logging project.xml for that one.

I have a full-time job, and can't really afford the weeks-long investment required to understand how to configure a project, let alone contribute to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of Maven, but if there is no documentation the only developers you will ever have are (a) the ones you already have, or (b) any people who have _nothing_ else to do. Plus, you need good documentation to support the droves of people out there just looking to give you a popularity vote in JDJ or JavaPro...that's definitely worth something.

Just my 2c.

John

On Thu, 2002-12-12 at 12:43, Henri Yandell wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:

Rafal Krzewski <rkrz@ngo.pl> writes:

Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:

Is "documentation" one of the 2-3 serious things left to do?

Documentation is nice but working code is better :-) My experience with OSS shows that docs lie on the far end of the priority list.

The people

And that's why there are bazillons of abandoned, half-finished or simply not usable OSS projects.

A full-hearted +1.

Documentation is nice, working code is good, but community is better.

Good documentation leads to community. Working code without a community is not good OSS.

[from having sat on the sidelines on Maven for a year now]

The early Maven documentation was simply amazing and along with Jason's fervent drive were the two things that turned Maven from an idea into the next generation project it is.

The documentation slipped as it had to handle multiple versions at the same time and as the amount of time spent documenting was less than the amount of time spent coding new features.

It reached a bad point where the online docs were just plain wrong, but has since improved so that they are correct, but new features seem to take time to fully appear, and concepts like Best-Use-Guides and multi-level tutorials are not there yet.

Even as a 'user' who is sitting and waiting for documentation to appear for some features [if anyone wants to write a Reactor tutorial, I'd owe you a beer] I still think that Maven 1.0 does not need great documentation, but that the focus of work once Maven 1.0 is released should be on tutorials, documentation and books.

My tuppence,

Hen

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