atom feed59 messages in org.kde.kde-cafeRe: Is KDE 3 "ugly" ?
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Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:30 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:32 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:37 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:42 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:44 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 5:45 am 
David McGloneApr 5, 2002 6:09 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 6:17 am 
David McGloneApr 5, 2002 7:32 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 8:02 am 
Martijn KlingensApr 5, 2002 8:11 am 
Maksim OrlovichApr 5, 2002 8:17 am 
David McGloneApr 5, 2002 9:34 am 
Waldo BastianApr 5, 2002 10:35 am 
Waldo BastianApr 5, 2002 10:39 am 
Andreas RoedlApr 5, 2002 10:52 am 
Martijn KlingensApr 5, 2002 3:00 pm 
Martijn KlingensApr 5, 2002 3:14 pm 
Eduardo SanchezApr 5, 2002 3:47 pm 
Abdulla KamarApr 5, 2002 5:34 pm 
Waldo BastianApr 5, 2002 8:32 pm 
Navindra UmaneeApr 5, 2002 9:56 pm 
Eray OzkuralApr 6, 2002 1:37 am 
Rolf MagnusApr 6, 2002 3:07 am 
Martijn KlingensApr 6, 2002 6:26 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 6, 2002 6:48 am 
Martijn KlingensApr 6, 2002 7:24 am 
Waldo BastianApr 6, 2002 11:03 am 
Richard MooreApr 6, 2002 2:48 pm 
Michael WardleApr 7, 2002 3:53 pm 
akarApr 7, 2002 10:40 pm 
Richard MooreApr 8, 2002 4:52 pm 
Rinse de VriesApr 15, 2002 1:49 pm 
Paul E Ahlquist JrApr 15, 2002 8:31 pm 
Rinse de VriesApr 16, 2002 1:41 am 
Eduardo SanchezApr 16, 2002 10:37 am 
Aaron J. SeigoApr 16, 2002 2:41 pm 
Daniel CassidyApr 16, 2002 2:55 pm 
depApr 16, 2002 3:06 pm 
Timothy R. ButlerApr 16, 2002 3:07 pm 
Aaron J. SeigoApr 16, 2002 3:15 pm 
Subject:Re: Is KDE 3 "ugly" ?
From:Martijn Klingens (mkli@yahoo.com)
Date:Apr 6, 2002 6:26:59 am
List:org.kde.kde-cafe

On Saturday 06 April 2002 01:47, Eduardo Sanchez wrote:

It was broken, at the development side. Any widget created by the Qt designer would use a spacing/margin different from the KDE default. And inconsistency is _waaaay_ more ugly than whatever spacing value you use.

Don't really get this. Can you explain please? It is very interesting but I don't understand very well.

Back in the good old days when KDE 2.0 was under development there was no Qt Designer yet. Back then the margins between a QLayout's border and the spacings between the inner widgets were set to whatever value KDE 2.x uses. See KDialog::marginHint() and KDialog::spacingHint() for the values.

Then, about at the time KDE 2.0 got released TrollTech released a Qt version that added the Qt Designer, allowing developers to rapidly prototype user interfaces, redesign them easily, and allow non-programmers to do the GUI (usability) work. Qt Designer, however, used a hardcoded value for the QLayout margins and spacings that was different from the KDE 2.x default.

In KDE 2.1 and 2.2 the Designer became used more and more. The new Designer of Qt 3 is much more powerful and is hence used even more. It became apparent that code that uses both 'coded' widgets and widgets created by designer would look ugly with both conflicting margin and spacing defaults. And even if a single app would use a single policy then the margins would still differ between two apps, which is equally inconsistent and ugly.

Therefore the KDE 3 margin and spacing hints are set to the same values Qt Designer uses to make it consistent again.

Aqreed with qualifications: 1) I use a notebook with an 800x600 screen so I would rather see something crowded that fits in my screen than something less crowded but that doesn't fit into it.

I tend to object here. If a dialog does not fit on an 800x600 screen then 9 times out of 10 the dialog it self is a usability-disaster anyway and needs a redesign. For that last 10% you may have a point, though I'm not at all sure about that. For the first 90% rather create proper dialogs with less widgets that do fit.

2) If you see the Alt+F2 dialog, you will notice that the lateral distances from a button to the dialog box border are larger than the same button's distance from the inferior border. These two distances used to be the other way: as can be seen in the KDE 2.2.2 screenshots I provided, the distances on the sides used to be actually narrower than the distance on the lower side. I do not understand the rationale behind this change nor its usefulness.

Uhhhhm... I have no idea what you mean here... I thought I understood it, until I opened the page again and looked at the images, but that wasn't it. Please try again :-)

Not so much. See something: 1) Compare the horizontal distance between the last 's' of the "Compact all folders" command and the Ctrl-P keyboard acceletator of the previous command. The horizontal distance between those is much higher in KDE 3 than it was in KDE 2.2.x.

And you're sure that isn't to make menus look more like MS Windows? It's the style that defines most of those spacings, not the widget itself.

2) The submenu in KDE 3.0 has an offset to the left and other to the right. Both are much higher than they used to be in KDE 2.2.x. For example, the "Calvin" menu entry is actually more than twice the extension required by the length of the text.

See question above.

3) I do not think that this Qt Windows style replicates Windows better. Admittedly, the widgets considered individually are much closer to Windows than ever; but try showing a Qt Windows dialog box in X11 and Win9x and you'll immediately realize that there are indeed differences.

Are those spacings different in MS Windows? And are you talking about the Windows version of Qt using the Windows style, or native Windows widgets?

Martijn