atom feed95 messages in org.blender.bf-committersRe: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/...
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15 earlier messages
Campbell BartonJan 6, 2012 4:08 am 
KnappJan 6, 2012 10:51 am 
Morten MikkelsenJan 6, 2012 12:20 pm 
Francesco ZoffoliJan 6, 2012 4:04 pm 
skotiJan 6, 2012 5:11 pm 
Morten MikkelsenJan 6, 2012 5:34 pm 
Przemyslaw GolabJan 7, 2012 12:41 am 
Ton RoosendaalJan 7, 2012 3:30 am 
skotiJan 7, 2012 5:03 am 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 6:49 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 7:06 am 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 7:38 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 7:49 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 7:52 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 8:22 am 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 8:29 am 
Domino MaramaJan 7, 2012 9:04 am 
Erwin CoumansJan 7, 2012 9:07 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 9:10 am 
Erwin CoumansJan 7, 2012 9:23 am 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 9:47 am 
skotiJan 7, 2012 10:16 am 
Gaia ClaryJan 7, 2012 10:34 am 
KnappJan 7, 2012 10:34 am 
Erwin CoumansJan 7, 2012 11:15 am 
Alexandr KuznetsovJan 7, 2012 11:33 am 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 12:04 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 12:06 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 12:08 pm 
Erwin CoumansJan 7, 2012 12:13 pm 
Sergey KurdakovJan 7, 2012 12:32 pm 
SebastianJan 7, 2012 1:22 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 2:34 pm 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 3:09 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 7, 2012 3:24 pm 
Morten MikkelsenJan 7, 2012 3:36 pm 
Campbell BartonJan 7, 2012 6:45 pm 
skotiJan 8, 2012 1:57 am 
François T.Jan 8, 2012 3:24 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 8, 2012 3:31 pm 
angj...@gulftel.comJan 8, 2012 4:34 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 8, 2012 7:16 pm 
Campbell BartonJan 8, 2012 8:39 pm 
Juan LinietskyJan 8, 2012 9:37 pm 
Kalle-Samuli RiihikoskiJan 8, 2012 9:55 pm 
Campbell BartonJan 8, 2012 9:57 pm 
François T.Jan 9, 2012 12:27 am 
Ton RoosendaalJan 9, 2012 2:43 am 
SebastianJan 9, 2012 3:09 am 
Domino MaramaJan 9, 2012 3:59 am 
30 later messages
Subject:Re: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/exporter kickout
From:Erwin Coumans (erwi@gmail.com)
Date:Jan 7, 2012 11:15:54 am
List:org.blender.bf-committers

@Morton

A C++ .blend importer may not be a viable alternative for some people (artists) but using an existing open source C++ .blend importer can be a viable alternative for programmers.

It would be great to have well maintained COLLADA export/import for Blender of course, so good luck if someone can create and maintain a Python implementation.

Peter Amstutz wrote

When I looked last looked at OpenCollada, one critical issue preventing someone else from taking over maintenance is the fact that it relied heavily on autogenerated code, but the code generator and the input file are not included in the online repository.

That is a serious issue. Did someone try to make those code generation files available?

There would also needs to be a set of test cases,

Khronos/COLLADA workgroup has an extensive conformance tests, unfortunately they are only available to members. If someone starts maintaining OpenCollada, they probably can get access to those conformance tests.

Thanks, Erwin

On 7 January 2012 09:47, Morten Mikkelsen <mikk@gmail.com> wrote:

Erwin I consider this irrelevant in the current discussion. Programmers should they choose to can write .blend importers but the current discussion is what to do about collada for blender. Telling everyone to write .blend importers (incl artists) is not a viable alternative. That being said it sounds like Juan has a good start here.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Erwin Coumans <erwi@gmail.com

wrote:

You are right that in some cases an exporter is better, but in many cases a C/C++ .blend importer is a better to go.

I just wanted to remind anyone reading this thread that there is an easy way to extract any data from Blender in C++, including animation curves, skinning info, textures etc, without the issues of COLLADA and FBX.

I'm not familiar with baking, but you might be able to store the baked data in the .blend file.

Thanks, Erwin

On 7 January 2012 09:10, Juan Linietsky <redu@gmail.com> wrote:

Erwin, That looks awesome and really useful, however the main advantage of an importer is the ability to bake everything (IK and other constraints) just like it's displayed in Blender.

Cheers

Juan Linietsky

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Erwin Coumans <erwi@gmail.com

wrote:

Instead of going through the COLLADA or other intermediate format you can directly extract any data from a .blend using this C++ .blend parser:

http://tinyurl.com/6s7k9zw

AnimKit with the .blend loader includes a small sample that loads a .blend file, extracts textures, meshes, animations, skinning and physics info. It shows a skinned skeletal animated character using AnimKit and GLUT (keeping dependencies to a minimum)

Cheers, Erwin

On 7 January 2012 07:38, Morten Mikkelsen <mikk@gmail.com> wrote:

In my case I do not need morphs. I do need animation and skinning though. And obviously also geometries and materials. And it sounds like you have this covered? I have no sense of loyalty toward OpenCollada so if this is a viable solution I am for it. Can you make it available somewhere with instructions

on

how

to install it so people can test it?

Cheers and thanks,

Morten

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Juan Linietsky <redu@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi guys,

I made my own Collada exporter in Python and that's what I've been using. It's less than 1k lines of code and does not depend upon

any

library

or anything, but it exports everything except morphs. I don't

have

much

time to work on it at the moment, but it's so simple and complete

that

if

anyone else want's to work on it, it should be really easy. I'm

also

not

an

expert at Python or Blender API so someone more experience can probably shape it up better. It's also much more stable than the official

one

(due

to it being so small).

Feel free to do anything with it or integrate it into Blender,

just

credit

me on the file. I would love to work more on it, or even make a proper importer since I have a high level of expertise in Collada, but I

have

very

little time and must work to earn my meals.

Cheers!

Juan Linietsky

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Morten Mikkelsen <

mikk@gmail.com

wrote:

Yes that's a very relevant point. A collada solution with just positions, UVs and normals is not a solution. In that case you might as well use obj format. I went through the hard work of writing a collada importer

specifically

to

get skinning and animation into my tech frame-work.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:03 AM, skoti <skot@o2.pl> wrote:

I know Collada importer / exporter is problematic (I wrote an importer for my engine and I know that everything in the Collada can

be

stored

in

N different ways).

- If you want to use the model in Second Life / Google Earth,

you

have

to use Collada, if you want to use models in engines WebGL/Flash3D practically have to use Collada (is there any web engine with FBX importer?), Most game engines use Collada for importing data (support for FBX a few). FBX exporter also has bugs. Well, that FBX is

in

a

blender, but it is not usually an option for people using Collada.

- If someone uses Collada it not for the base mesh + uv (then

using

*.

obj) and for skeletal animation, lights, cameras and their animation (motion, color, light and their intensity), multiUV (uv for color, normalmap ... + uv for lightmap). And all this in current Collada exporter works well.

- No other exporter does not work here as well as Collada -

ofc

has

bugs, but it has nothing what could replace the Collada in

this

task.

In

the future, Alembic can replace Collada, but not for several years.

IMO, better to leave Collada, until you will be able to

replace

it

with

success to other formats like Alembic (FBX is not popular in the software and you can not replace him Collada in most tasks).

On 7 Jan, 2012, at 12:30, Ton Roosendaal wrote:

Hi,

I realize the proposal was harsh, but it was meant as a

public

statement

as well (to khronos, opencollada team, etc). I don't want to

blame

it

on

the hard working devs here. We do have collada IO work at

some

level,

and

that has been proven useful in several cases. The job is just incredible hard to achieve.

To move forward:

- userts who successfully applied .dae could also check

whether

another

exchange format would have done the job as good. Tried FBX?

- note that for basic mesh (+uv) export, a quite simple

script

could

do

the job already. It is probably a few days job for a py

scripter.

- we are currently including about 100 MB of opencollada

libs

to

make a

feature work that's meant to be able to exchange (I+O) full

shots

or

game

environments, with character animation and so on. That's what

Collada

was

designed for, and that's a target we can't support.

-Ton-

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation to@blender.org www.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands

On 6 Jan, 2012, at 21:21, Morten Mikkelsen wrote:

1) Official announcement that Blender drops Collada support 2) Move Collada support into a branch, out of trunk 3) Create a tracker "orphanage" or "branches" or so,

where

we

put

all

reports that are not in support (anymore).

I just want to say though I am not up for the challenge of

taking

over

on

this sub project I would be sad to see Collada support

taken

out

of

trunk.

I use it often also with skinning export. I know many

users

do

and

eventhough I understand everyone's frustration I prefer

the

implementation

that is there now (which I use often) to no built-in

version

at

all.

I am not disagreeing with any of the frustrating aspects

of

Collada

which

you and others have mentioned. Just saying personally I do use it and would very much

like

keep

it

in.

With bugs and all :)

I have seen many other commercial tools with awful crappy

.3ds

importers

and exporters but bad as they were they didn't take them out because people were still relying on them and using them.

Despite

the

bugs

in them.

Cheers,

Morten.