|Jean T. Anderson||Dec 16, 2005 5:17 pm|
|Noel J. Bergman||Dec 16, 2005 6:07 pm|
|Roy T. Fielding||Dec 16, 2005 6:09 pm|
|Jean T. Anderson||Dec 16, 2005 6:28 pm|
|Noel J. Bergman||Dec 16, 2005 7:16 pm|
|Roy T. Fielding||Dec 16, 2005 7:22 pm|
|Noel J. Bergman||Dec 16, 2005 7:38 pm|
|Martin Cooper||Dec 16, 2005 8:03 pm|
|Henri Yandell||Dec 16, 2005 9:26 pm|
|Antonio Gallardo||Dec 16, 2005 9:37 pm|
|Mark Thomas||Dec 17, 2005 2:33 am|
|robert burrell donkin||Dec 17, 2005 7:01 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Dec 17, 2005 7:10 am|
|Noel J. Bergman||Dec 17, 2005 8:26 am|
|Jean T. Anderson||Dec 17, 2005 9:07 am|
|Mark Thomas||Dec 17, 2005 9:08 am|
|Jean T. Anderson||Dec 17, 2005 9:14 am|
|Thorsten Scherler||Dec 17, 2005 9:49 am|
|Mark Thomas||Dec 18, 2005 11:40 am|
|robert burrell donkin||Dec 18, 2005 12:25 pm|
|Sylvain Wallez||Dec 20, 2005 3:50 am|
|Jean T. Anderson||Dec 20, 2005 8:34 am|
|Ted Husted||Jan 1, 2006 4:55 am|
|Davanum Srinivas||Jan 3, 2006 6:17 am|
|Will Glass-Husain||Jan 3, 2006 4:05 pm|
|Ted Husted||Jan 4, 2006 7:35 am|
|robert burrell donkin||Jan 5, 2006 1:10 pm|
|Ted Husted||Jan 5, 2006 4:08 pm|
|robert burrell donkin||Jan 9, 2006 2:12 pm|
|Subject:||Re: At what point do you unsubscribe/deny a misbehaving user?|
|From:||Will Glass-Husain (wgl...@apache.org)|
|Date:||Jan 3, 2006 4:05:30 pm|
I've been enjoying reading this discussion. I think many of us have struggled with similar issues in the mailing lists.
If someone was interesting in writing an essay that summarized and quoted some of the key insights from this thread it would be an interesting article for the web site or Wiki.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com> To: <comm...@apache.org>; <hus...@apache.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:17 AM Subject: Re: At what point do you unsubscribe/deny a misbehaving user?
+10000 We need to document this :)
thanks -- dims
On 1/1/06, Ted Husted <ted....@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/20/05, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@apache.org> wrote:
I think potentially *anything* could feed a troll, so then the goal is how to minimize troll effects on the community. I really like Mark's Gandhi approach for setting FUD straight, and I think the humor of your approach definitely merits a place in the anti-troll arsenal.
Gandhi said "You must be the change you wish to see in the world," which, I think, is excellent advice for anyone working in open source, especially when dealing with trolls.
Once I determine a poster is a troll, I never, ever feed the troll. Usually, I filter the posts directly to the trash. Back in the BBS days, we called this a "twit list".
If I do see a flame, I go back to the original poster and respond in a helpful way, but without quoting the flame. I do what should have been done in the first place: I "be the change".
If there's misinformation in a flame that needs to be corrected, I look for another way to reply without quoting the misinformation. Sometimes that can be done by responding to someone else in the thread. Other times, I will start a new thread to state the correct information but without quoting the misinformation. Again: Be the change, and don't feed the trolls.
I avoid answering questions about a project off list. If someone can't or won't post to the list, and it's a question I want to answer, I'll post the question and answer to the list myself, but not to one person alone.
If someone sends me a question that they should ask on the list, I always reply: "The best place to post a question like this is the User list, where there are more people to help an the answers are archived. [Link to the mailing list page.]"
If someone asks me about a troll, I suggest that they do what I do: Filter the twit to the trash. If that someone then posts to the list, I make sure they recieve a helpful response.
When a new committer joins one of my projects, and we've had trouble with trolls, I send them this note:
From time to time, all public mailing lists have trouble with trolls -- people who delight in complaining for the sake of complaining. And, of course Apache mailing lists are no exception.
Trolls have been discussed at length on internal lists, and in the end, we are left with the Apache maxim:
* Don't feed the trolls.
We do try listening and we do try reasoning, and when that doesn't work we are left with shunning.
It doesn't always make the trolls go away, but it does tend to quiet them. Replying only makes it worse, not only because trolls don't listen or reason (they only complain), but because it steals time from productive work. Time we waste replying to trolls can't be spent applying patches or replying to earnest users.
Of course, we are all volunteers here, and we are free to act according to our own lights, but it my experience, starving trolls does work -- at least as well as anything else does.
In one case, a troll from one project started to post to another. I was able to warn the other PMC right away. None of the commtters fell for the troll-bait, and the troll went away.
Happy New Year!
-- Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/