107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 4, 2002 11:08 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Nov 4, 2002 12:46 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 4, 2002 1:09 pm | |
| John Keyes | Nov 4, 2002 3:25 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 4, 2002 4:33 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 5, 2002 5:37 pm | |
| Peter Donald | Nov 5, 2002 6:25 pm | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 5, 2002 7:33 pm | |
| Aaron Bannert | Nov 5, 2002 9:27 pm | |
| Aaron Bannert | Nov 5, 2002 9:29 pm | |
| Ted Husted | Nov 6, 2002 5:14 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 6, 2002 6:54 pm | |
| Daniel Rall | Nov 6, 2002 10:11 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 7, 2002 3:43 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 7, 2002 4:11 am | |
| Ted Husted | Nov 7, 2002 4:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 7, 2002 5:33 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 7, 2002 8:01 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 7, 2002 9:27 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 7, 2002 12:39 pm | |
| Rich Bowen | Nov 8, 2002 4:35 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 9:06 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 8, 2002 1:49 pm | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 8, 2002 2:04 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 2:46 pm | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 8, 2002 3:11 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 8, 2002 3:48 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 4:02 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 4:56 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 5:02 pm | |
| Martin van den Bemt | Nov 8, 2002 5:13 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 5:48 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 5:50 pm | |
| James Taylor | Nov 8, 2002 5:56 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 5:57 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 6:04 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 8, 2002 6:16 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 6:37 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 6:40 pm | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 12:29 am | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 9, 2002 2:44 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 3:26 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:13 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:25 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 9, 2002 4:27 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:35 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 9, 2002 4:36 am | |
| Danny Angus | Nov 9, 2002 4:39 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:50 am | |
| Martin van den Bemt | Nov 9, 2002 5:21 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 6:28 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 9, 2002 8:49 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 9, 2002 9:29 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 9, 2002 10:23 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 10:49 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 10:58 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 12:32 pm | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 9, 2002 3:29 pm | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 9, 2002 3:37 pm | |
| Chuck Murcko | Nov 9, 2002 6:07 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 10, 2002 5:29 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 10, 2002 6:21 am | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 10, 2002 9:14 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 11, 2002 7:05 pm | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 11, 2002 7:26 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 11, 2002 7:41 pm | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 11, 2002 7:42 pm | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 11, 2002 7:43 pm | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | Nov 11, 2002 9:34 pm | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | Nov 11, 2002 9:35 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 11, 2002 9:50 pm | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 11, 2002 11:17 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 12, 2002 7:18 am | |
| 33 later messages | ||
| Subject: | Re: Rules for Revolutionaries | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Costin Manolache (cos...@covalent.net) | |
| Date: | Nov 8, 2002 2:04:40 pm | |
| List: | org.apache.community | |
In my personal opinion they are just redundant :-)
The rule that matter is that the community control the code and the name - a majority vote in the community can decide ultimately what happens.
This is a particular case ( again IMO ) of the "releases are majority votes and can't be vetoed".
A side effect of the 'revolution' rules is that a veto can be overriden - nobody can veto a revolution ( or a release ), and if you change the entire code base or a part of it you obviously can make changes that were vetoed.
There are few important consequences:
1. No person ( or group ) can control a codebase by using veto. It is quite easy to find technical reasons against anything.
2. It removes some personal conflicts. A veto or someone blocking an idea can be painful. It's a big difference between a majority voting against a particular idea and one person vetoing it.
3. To take tomcat as an example - it allows diverging groups or opinions to find the common ground. And that's the really great part IMO.
4. Some good ideas that may otherwise be rejected can eventually live.
Costin
On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 13:50, Sam Ruby wrote:
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
my curiousity has been set off again. there have been numerous mentions of the revolution concept as used in jakarta, and its widespread acceptance as policy. however, i don't see it mentioned in the jakarta guidelines; in fact, only in ted's proposal for new guidelines.
is jakarta's semi-formal acceptance of it as an operating principle actually recorded anywhere, or is it actually just an 'everybody knows that' informal general acceptance?
"general acceptance" is probably too strong a word. There are some, including apparently the original author, who now have doubts. But there can be no doubt that this document has strongly influenced the evolution of a number of Jakarta projects.
For further reading, I'd recommend taking a look at topics 3 and 4 in http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html
In my mind, the concepts of vetoes, revolutions, and releases being a majority decision are linked. Note: when Roy made the statement about releases, it sure sounded to me like he was stating it as if it were ASF policy. In any case, I would recommend that it be so.
Taken together, provisions are made for individuals to get attention to be focused on issues that they feel are important, individuals or even small groups can flesh out concepts that may initially be controversial, and a safety valve is provided so that forward progress can still be made.
- Sam Ruby