69 messages in org.codehaus.groovy.devRe: [groovy-dev] Building Groovy
FromSent OnAttachments
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 4:36 am 
MingfaiOct 6, 2008 4:47 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 4:50 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 4:55 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 6, 2008 4:56 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 7:17 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 7:51 am 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 7:59 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:19 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:25 am 
MingfaiOct 6, 2008 8:28 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:36 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 1:46 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 1:54 pm 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 1:54 pm 
Jochen TheodorouOct 6, 2008 2:03 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 2:09 pm 
Paul DuffyOct 6, 2008 7:06 pm 
Luke DaleyOct 6, 2008 8:47 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 9:44 pm 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 11:25 pm 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 11:54 pm 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 12:03 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:23 am 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 12:24 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 12:30 am 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 12:35 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:35 am 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 12:36 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:41 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 12:54 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 1:40 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 1:50 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 1:55 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 2:25 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 2:35 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 3:09 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 3:12 am 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 3:17 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 3:24 am 
Paul KingOct 7, 2008 4:04 am 
ma...@dockter.bizOct 7, 2008 4:19 am 
ma...@dockter.bizOct 7, 2008 4:25 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 4:36 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 4:39 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 5:20 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 8:19 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 9:51 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 10:49 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 12:03 pm 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 2:34 pm 
Luke DaleyOct 7, 2008 3:52 pm 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 1:28 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 1:35 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 3:11 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 3:49 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 4:30 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 4:40 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 4:52 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 5:21 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:23 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:47 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:59 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 8:33 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 8:43 am 
Paul DuffyOct 9, 2008 8:58 am 
Paul KingOct 9, 2008 1:15 pm 
Danno FerrinOct 9, 2008 1:27 pm 
Paul KingOct 10, 2008 2:31 am 
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Subject:Re: [groovy-dev] Building GroovyActions...
From:Guillaume Laforge (glaf@gmail.com)
Date:Oct 6, 2008 8:19:07 am
List:org.codehaus.groovy.dev

Of course, I'm playing the devil advocate here...

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Hans Dockter <ma@dockter.biz> wrote:

[...]

Catch phrases, catch phrases... I could answer with another one: "why fix what ain't broken?"

I hope this is not the general attitude of Groovy in regard to refactoring ;)

Then I'd wonder why you've built Gradle on top of Groovy :-)

[...] For one there is a technological reason. The claim is that the Groovy build will be easier to maintain and that it is easier to push project automation a step further.

But there is another strong reason why I think Groovy should think about switching its build system. It is a strategic reason. There is a lot of movement in the build area at the moment. For me this is a clear indication that people are not happy with the choices they had until recently. There is the Ruby based buildr, which soon will graduate as an Apache project. There is the popular SCons based on Phyton which is trying to improve it Java build capabilities. And there is Gradle based on Groovy/Java (as Russel has pointed out, Gant's use case is different). My opinion is that build systems will soon become the most important reason after web frameworks, for Java developers to learn a dynamic language. Which dynamic language they will learn, depends on the choice of the build system. I think it is in the very interest of Groovy to do everything to push the momentum of a Groovy based build system that is capable of competing with the other ones mentioned above. I'm very confident that Gradle is able to compete anyway. I'm very happy with the feedback and adoption. But if a popular project like Groovy would say we are using Gradle that would definitely accelerate things.

In this case, it helps Gradle more than it helps Groovy, if Groovy is just seen through this as a mere "scripting glue" for build systems.

Of course I have to close this mail with a phrase: This would be a win-win.

More of a win for Gradle than for Groovy here, unless we're happy with people just thinking Groovy is for build automation.

What I'm kinda waiting for are real strong technical arguments in favour of Gradle. I'm pushing you guys to be better at technical marketing here :-)