|Dennis E. Hamilton||Apr 7, 2010 1:46 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||May 1, 2010 1:48 pm|
|Jacques R. Durand||May 3, 2010 12:09 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||May 10, 2010 4:26 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||May 24, 2010 12:12 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||May 27, 2010 3:56 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Jun 16, 2010 6:35 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Jun 16, 2010 6:55 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Jun 29, 2010 2:10 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Aug 4, 2010 4:11 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Aug 21, 2010 11:22 am|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Sep 22, 2010 2:04 pm|
|Boland Jr., Frederick E.||Sep 23, 2010 4:51 am|
|Jacques R. Durand||Oct 11, 2010 11:15 am|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Oct 26, 2010 7:20 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Oct 30, 2010 10:41 am|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Nov 9, 2010 7:50 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Dec 6, 2010 6:20 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Feb 7, 2011 3:24 pm|
|Jacques Durand||Feb 8, 2011 1:00 pm|
|Dennis E. Hamilton||Feb 8, 2011 2:36 pm|
|Boland Jr., Frederick E.||Feb 9, 2011 6:53 am|
|Jacques Durand||Feb 9, 2011 3:07 pm|
|Subject:||[tag] TAG TC 2010-05-11 Meeting Minutes|
|From:||Dennis E. Hamilton (denn...@acm.org)|
|Date:||May 24, 2010 12:12:59 pm|
Test Assertions Guidelines (TAG) TC Teleconference Meeting
Tuesday 2pm (PDT), 21:00Z, 11 May 2010
Host confcall: Fujitsu US Toll Free: 877-995-3314 US Toll/International: 210-339-1806 Passcode: 9589308
Attendance and Quorum
MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE
5/5 Voting Members attending: 3/5 requirement for quorum was satisfied
* Jacques Durand, Chair (Fujitsu) * Dennis Hamilton, Secretary (Individual) * Frederick Boland (NIST) * Kevin Looney (Oracle) * Paul Rank (Oracle)
[*: Voting member at start and conclusion of the meeting (5)]
Dale Moberg (Axway Software) Youngkon Li (Individual) Kyoung_Rog Yi (National IT Industry Promotion Agency, Korea) Patrick Curran (Oracle) Leave of Absence Dmitry Kostovarov, (Oracle) Victor Rudometov, (Oracle) Hyunbo Cho (Pohang University of Science & Technology)
[*: Voting member at start and conclusion of the meeting (0)]
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MINUTES The 2010-04-27 updated minutes were approved without objection <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/201005/msg00008.html>
APPROVAL OF AGENDA The agenda was taken up without discussion <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/201005/msg00007.html>
Agenda: 1- Review of comments (both external and internal) on the PR drafts (closing May 9th). - TA Model specification (TAG-1, TAG-6), see proposals (email 5/5) - TA Markup specification (TAG-1,2,3,4) see proposal TAG-4 (email 5/4) 2- administrative matters: - meeting notes approval (Apr 27). - JIRA issue tracker. - next PR. - promoting TAG work: venues, ideas, liaisons to other SDOs - future roadmap.
AI1-May11: Jacques will check with Patrick Curran about when his leave ends
AI2-May11: Jacques will create a standing "TAG Promotion" item in the agenda
AI1-Apr27: [Dennis] to investigate "Compact" RelaxNG for our Markup syntax. [Jacques finds this tutorial: http://www.relaxng.org/compact-tutorial-20030326.html] [Dennis since found a compact form used in a W3C specification, adding it to TAG-4, http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/201005/msg00014.html]
AI2-Apr27: [Jacques] to check the JIRA page, possible re-configuration, add Dennis as authorized user.
AI1-Mar30: [Jacques] follow-up with Dave P. on his comments, to make sure we address them correctly.
AI2-Mar30: *Done* [Jacques] Follow-up with Mary to add Dennis as new secretary, give access rights.
AI3-Mar30: [Jacques] Contact W3C test team to remind them of PR, calling for comments.
AI4-Mar30: [Kevin] Contact Oracle internally to confirm they know about the PR (folks who contacted him)
AI5-Mar30: [Dennis] Investigate RDF possible representation for the TA Model. (ontologies / OWL?)
1. REVIEW OF COMMENTS RECEIVED SO FAR ON THE PUBLIC REVIEW (ended 2010-05-09) We discussed the JIRA issues.
TAG-1: Lack of Semantics in TAML. We continued discussing the lack of guidance on how to relate the markup constructs to the model and the guidelines. We are concerned about overloading the markup with semantics and redundancy with the model. It looks like the semantics belongs more to the model than the markup. Rough proposal is to have the markup reference the model properly. That is the direction that we've started to take and we are still in rough agreement.
TAG-2: More-detailed concerns about TAML names and datatypes. We discussed that there are different levels to consider and how close this looks to TAG-1 concerns. This one is also about linking TAML to the model better.
TAG-3: Objection to Multiple inter-dependent documents. We don't feel that it is appropriate to make TAML a standalone. We have to manage the redundancy properly, in how we cross-connect. It is still our commitment to treat TAML as a representation of the model.
TAG-4: Request for TAML Example and better XML Skeleton Approach. We agree this is valuable, especially having a better notation for illustrating the XML structure without repeating the schema. Our own "friendly notation" is non-standard. We looked at Relax NG compact notation. Jacques found a tutorial and there is a full spec. The compact notation seems good. We can add the compact RNG (and also show it in the example that we make, perhaps?). [Note: Dennis found another simplified scheme in a W3C spec since this discussion.]
TAG-5: [Internal] Set up JIRA - Internal TC Task
TAG-6: Broader Conformance Clause in the model. Jacques reviews the issue of needing statements of use and also demonstrating implementations. Yet all are using the TA model and the guidelines and we need to give them a way to be compliant users, such as the use by SCA. Jacques has proposed new conformance clauses. Actual test-assertion instances should be cases of use. We will add new conformance clauses.
TAG-7: Bindings to test-assertion markup, and consider RDF and SPARQL. Jacques says we could put this off and it is beyond what we ought to do now.
TAG-8: Suggestion to specify RDFS and OWL for the model. It seems not critical to Jacques.
There's a new comment coming in that questions the use of plaintext for predicates rather than having a machine-processable form.
2. FURTHER PUBLIC REVIEW
We discussed the need for a second public review based on the changes that we anticipate. We will need to provide a change-tracked version for the additional review.
On the May 25 meeting we want to make progress on proposed changes and see if we are ready for another Public Review by the end of June.
3. PROMOTION OF TEST ASSERTIONS
Jacques will create a promotion item in the standing agenda.
Jacques talked about XML Daily and news about a government initiative, NIEM and the naming and design and verification model. They are setting up standards to design XML schemas. Jacques thinks those schema design rules could be expressed as Test Assertions. [Note from Dennis: There is a Federal CIO Council XML Community of Practice (xmlCoP) distribution list that carries exchanges and contributions on this topic. CAM is being promoted for use with NIEM at <http://sourceforge.net/projects/camprocessor/files/>.]
4. DISCUSSION OF MAY 5 PROPOSED CHANGES
Proposes adding a semantic box, with color coding, etc. with the main constructs. Starts with a glossary, that needs to be matched to the formal model and names, etc. (Test Assertion is not in the glossary!) [We have a disconnect between the glossary and the formal terminology and need to work that through.] Jacques notices that we have nomenclature collisions with markup and we need to deal with that. Jacques thinks that normative language should come out of the glossary and be in the formal part. Also, much of the descriptive material goes away and gets into the semantic boxes.
Talked about new conformance clauses. Possibly merge classes 2-3, since using sets could just be an option. We still need to work on how the markup references the model, etc.
The next meeting is in two weeks - 2010-05-25.
- Dennis E. Hamilton
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