|Rubén Martín||May 8, 2012 1:08 pm|
|Rubén Martín||May 8, 2012 1:36 pm|
|Rubén Martín||May 8, 2012 4:44 pm|
|Daniel Mills||May 8, 2012 5:11 pm|
|Percy Cabello||May 8, 2012 5:28 pm|
|Rubén Martín||May 8, 2012 5:28 pm|
|fabi...@gmail.com||May 8, 2012 6:06 pm|
|pascalc||May 8, 2012 6:49 pm|
|Bill Walker||May 8, 2012 7:08 pm|
|Rodrigo Garcia||May 8, 2012 7:18 pm|
|Alex Jordan||May 8, 2012 7:32 pm|
|chris hofmann||May 8, 2012 7:44 pm|
|Rodrigo Garcia||May 8, 2012 7:44 pm|
|Alex Jordan||May 8, 2012 7:54 pm|
|Jason Smith||May 8, 2012 9:02 pm|
|Ragavan Srinivasan||May 8, 2012 9:09 pm|
|Rodrigo Garcia||May 8, 2012 9:09 pm|
|raga...@gmail.com||May 8, 2012 9:16 pm|
|Patrick Finch||May 9, 2012 12:52 am|
|Nukeador||May 9, 2012 1:21 am|
|Pascal Chevrel||May 9, 2012 2:24 am|
|Percy Cabello||May 9, 2012 5:13 am|
|chris hofmann||May 9, 2012 7:26 am|
|Patrick Finch||May 9, 2012 7:34 am|
|Rubén Martín||May 9, 2012 1:10 pm|
|Majken Connor||May 9, 2012 2:58 pm|
|Asa Dotzler||May 9, 2012 3:14 pm|
|Santiago Hollmann||May 9, 2012 4:16 pm|
|Rubén Martín||May 9, 2012 4:57 pm|
|Brendan Eich||May 9, 2012 5:05 pm|
|Jame...@googlemail.com||May 11, 2012 12:00 pm|
|Daniel Mills||May 11, 2012 7:48 pm|
|James Michael Dupont||May 11, 2012 11:10 pm|
|Mike Dupont||May 12, 2012 1:39 am|
|Mike Dupont||May 12, 2012 5:27 am|
|Rubén Martín||May 14, 2012 8:20 am|
|Nukeador||May 15, 2012 6:34 am|
|chris hofmann||May 15, 2012 7:47 am|
|Marco||May 16, 2012 12:32 pm|
|Subject:||Re: About Linux support at marketplace|
|From:||Jason Smith (jsm...@mozilla.com)|
|Date:||May 8, 2012 9:02:20 pm|
+Aaron Train (Android WebRT QA) +Stephen Donner (k9o QA driver) +Tony Chung (Mobile QA lead) +Kevin Brosnan (Contributor turned employee)
Good feedback. Comments inline.
Sincerely, Jason Smith
Desktop QA Engineer Mozilla Corporation https://quality.mozilla.org/
On 5/8/2012 7:44 PM, chris hofmann wrote:
I think its probably a premature optimization to be dropping platforms at this stage of the requirements definition and it definitely doesn't match the the initial context section of the document. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro/ProductDraft#Context_-_The_Web_is_the_Platform
especially this part....
A people-centered system will enable users to identify themselves to websites and apps on their own terms*; to take their apps easily from one OS to another;* to disclose only what they want about themselves in proportion to the value they receive.
If we want to meet that requirement we will need to do tablets and linux.
Right, I agree that the vision reflects the need for tablets and linux. From the tester's perspective, I'm a little less worried about the risk of not having tablet support, as the web apps integration for android is built into fennec native and reusing some of it's functionality. Fennec native itself, can run on a tablet, so we might still be okay to get some tablet support (I'll want to confirm with it with some testing though, Aaron & Tony probably could provide more insight here).
For linux, I believe the original rationale for not going for support initially was linux's low marketshare along with added engineering resources needed for it (i.e. it doesn't get the same benefit tablet gets above). However, a recent discussion I had with a contributor turned employee (Kevin Brosnan) makes me rethink that the primary reason for supporting linux is not marketshare. A rationale like you stated above relates to openness - the user makes the decision to use apps wherever they like. Another relates to paying attention to the needs of contributors - What do they find important? Note that I know linux users also happen to be loud, so not supporting their platform could hurt us from PR perspective (e.g. blog posts bashing us). Overall, I definitely believe we need to rethink our strategy on linux based on the rationale provided.
I think the problem here is problem one of not having a deep enough understanding of how we will do *any* of the OS integration for these requirements:
For linux, this is being thought about by one of our contributors, Marco. He's written up a specification of what he thinks should be done here - https://etherpad.mozilla.org/tzkVRnfvm1. Feel free to provide feedback.
P1: Launch from native standard launch points (start menu, dock, start page, Home Screen etc.) P1: Launch in chromeless window, outside the browser application (bug 740586 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740586>) (bug 743917 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743917>)
The other requirements appear to be largely cross platform.
Its always been easier to find windows and mac knowledgable people to figure out the OS integration parts. We just need to find the right engineer to figure out these requirements for Linux and Tablets, and as the last line indicates iOS. That will be an even tougher integration job.
Right, although I actually think keeping iOS out of scope is alright to do for now, as we need to nail down the web apps UX flow correctly on one mobile operating system and being successful, before we tackle another operating system. For linux, this is probably a good opportunity to form a community around web apps integration into linux, as even today I've seen interest in this.
That's the way get https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro/ProductDraft#You_will_be_able_to_install_and_use_your_apps_across_phones_and_PCs_where_WebRT_is_available fixed so its on track to ship with the other platforms.
Any ideas on people that could step up to figure out these areas on those platforms? I think this goes beyond thunder's suggestion of "patches accepted" to more like "patches highly desired and sought after!" Eventually we will want this work done, so lets find the right module owner to start tackling it now.
Good call. Myk Melez is looking to get a module owner defined for the web app runtime on desktop on the governance discussion thread. Let's get that defined quickly and come up with a way to get patch support both internally and externally to get support platforms such as linux. I would be more than happy to help out with promoting community involvement with this. Myk - What do you think?
On 5/8/12 7:19 PM, Rodrigo Garcia wrote:
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Bill Walker<bwal...@mozilla.com> wrote:
Thanks for your interest in the Marketplace!
I can understand your frustration in our launching the Marketplace without Linux
support. As you heard, Marco Castelluccio is working on the Web Runtime (WebRT)
for Linux as we speak.
Unfortunately, we need to start getting feedback about the Marketplace now if we
are going to meet our Kilimanjaro goals of making the Marketplace awesome for
B2G. Given our finite engineering resources and schedule, we decided to make the
announcement to Mozillians before WebRT for Linux was finished.
I'd be happy to try to answer any other questions, but I'll be on PTO for a
week. Likely others on this list can chime in, too.
Hi Everyone, I agree with Rubén Martin. IMHO is very, very, very sad that MozillaLabs team has chosen Windows and OSX as the initial supported platform, putting Linux support on the queue. I think is a very bad signal either for the Market and for our volunteers. I hope this decision will be revisited. If the problem is related with resources or budget for the project, I'm sure the organization can do an extra effort to correct this decission.