107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries
FromSent OnAttachments
Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 11:08 
Vadim Gritsenko04 Nov 2002 12:46 
Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 13:09 
John Keyes04 Nov 2002 15:25 
Sam Ruby04 Nov 2002 16:33 
Rodent of Unusual Size05 Nov 2002 17:37 
Peter Donald05 Nov 2002 18:25 
Costin Manolache05 Nov 2002 19:33 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:27 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:29 
Ted Husted06 Nov 2002 05:14 
Rodent of Unusual Size06 Nov 2002 18:54 
Daniel Rall06 Nov 2002 22:11 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 03:43 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 04:11 
Ted Husted07 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi07 Nov 2002 05:33 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 08:01 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 09:27 
Costin Manolache07 Nov 2002 12:39 
Rich Bowen08 Nov 2002 04:35 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 09:06 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 13:49 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 14:04 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 14:46 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 15:11 
Stefano Mazzocchi08 Nov 2002 15:48 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 16:02 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 16:56 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 17:02 
Martin van den Bemt08 Nov 2002 17:13 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:48 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:50 
James Taylor08 Nov 2002 17:56 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 17:57 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 18:04 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 18:16 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:37 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:40 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 00:29 
Jeff Turner09 Nov 2002 02:44 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 03:26 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:13 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:25 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:27 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:35 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:36 
Danny Angus09 Nov 2002 04:39 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:50 
Martin van den Bemt09 Nov 2002 05:21 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 06:28 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 08:49 
Sam Ruby09 Nov 2002 09:29 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 10:23 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:49 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:58 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 12:32 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:29 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:37 
Chuck Murcko09 Nov 2002 18:07 
Rodent of Unusual Size10 Nov 2002 05:29 
Ceki Gülcü10 Nov 2002 06:21 
James Duncan Davidson10 Nov 2002 09:14 
Stefano Mazzocchi11 Nov 2002 19:05 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:26 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 19:41 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 19:42 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:43 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:34 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:35 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 21:50 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 23:17 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 07:18 
Stefano Mazzocchi12 Nov 2002 07:24 
Martin van den Bemt12 Nov 2002 08:18 
Joe Schaefer12 Nov 2002 08:19 
Jeff Turner12 Nov 2002 08:20 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 08:28 
Henri Yandell12 Nov 2002 08:41 
Costin Manolache12 Nov 2002 09:57 
Costin Manolache12 Nov 2002 10:14 
Craig R. McClanahan12 Nov 2002 11:38 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 12:18 
Glenn Nielsen12 Nov 2002 19:04 
Stephen McConnell13 Nov 2002 02:23 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 03:49 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 03:55 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 04:02 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 04:20 
Stephen McConnell13 Nov 2002 04:20 
Stefano Mazzocchi13 Nov 2002 06:44 
Joe Schaefer13 Nov 2002 07:37 
14 later messages
Subject:Re: Rules for Revolutionaries
From:Stefano Mazzocchi (stef@apache.org)
Date:11/09/2002 04:13:10 AM
List:org.apache.community

Sam Ruby wrote:

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

Duncan is the original author of both Tomcat 3.x and Ant. He became more and more involved into open source evangelization activity in Sun (where he worked at that time) and detached from the Ant development community.

At some point, he came back, he didn't like some of the technical/design choices that were done and proposed his own. Since these changes were revolutionary, he wanted to use the rules for revolutionaries and start working on its own internal fork codenamed 'amber'.

Dry story: he was told he had to re-earn committership in order to do that. He tried to fought that, but got pissed after slamming on some rubber walls and left, leaving a bad taste in many people's mouths. His own first.

I differ with that rendition, and believe that it is harmful to the community for it to be propogated.

Thanks for keeping me on track on this.

I actually didn't know that I was choosen as an example of person leading a project, then going away, than come back. I did it twice, for different reasons.

But my way of coming back has been *much* different than Duncan's, probably that is what made the difference.

Anyway, going thru the mail thread I identified a problem that I didn't see before: Peter checked in several proposals and this would be something against the rules. Only committers have a right to propose an internal fork, but they must work on their own stuff, not act as a proxy for external people who came up with their ideas.

The reason is simple: a codebase without a person working actively on it it's totally useless, it just adds mess because people will not going to read that code anyway if nobody is there yelling "look at how I solved your problem in my proposal".

So, I think two things can be learned from the ant story:

- the original author of the code doesn't have to re-earn recognition, but it *does* have to re-earn respect from all the new persons that came to the project while he/she was away. Bashing is exactly the opposite of this.

- an internal fork proposal must have at least one committer actively working on it. This didn't happen and resulted in several 'dead but showing off' proposals that just increased confusion and FUD.

Anyway, I still see no sign that the rules for revolutionaries don't work.