atom feed107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries
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16 earlier messages
Stefano MazzocchiNov 7, 2002 5:33 am 
Sam RubyNov 7, 2002 8:01 am 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 7, 2002 9:27 am 
Costin ManolacheNov 7, 2002 12:39 pm 
Rich BowenNov 8, 2002 4:36 am 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 8, 2002 9:06 am 
Sam RubyNov 8, 2002 1:50 pm 
Costin ManolacheNov 8, 2002 2:05 pm 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 8, 2002 2:46 pm 
Costin ManolacheNov 8, 2002 3:11 pm 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 8, 2002 3:48 pm 
Craig R. McClanahanNov 8, 2002 4:02 pm 
Andrew C. OliverNov 8, 2002 4:57 pm 
Andrew C. OliverNov 8, 2002 5:03 pm 
Martin van den BemtNov 8, 2002 5:14 pm 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 8, 2002 5:48 pm 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 8, 2002 5:51 pm 
James TaylorNov 8, 2002 5:56 pm 
Craig R. McClanahanNov 8, 2002 5:58 pm 
Craig R. McClanahanNov 8, 2002 6:05 pm 
Sam RubyNov 8, 2002 6:17 pm 
Andrew C. OliverNov 8, 2002 6:38 pm 
Andrew C. OliverNov 8, 2002 6:40 pm 
Ceki GülcüNov 9, 2002 12:29 am 
Jeff TurnerNov 9, 2002 2:44 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 3:27 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 4:13 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 4:25 am 
Andrew C. OliverNov 9, 2002 4:27 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 4:31 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 4:35 am 
Andrew C. OliverNov 9, 2002 4:36 am 
Danny AngusNov 9, 2002 4:39 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 4:50 am 
Martin van den BemtNov 9, 2002 5:21 am 
Ceki GülcüNov 9, 2002 6:28 am 
Costin ManolacheNov 9, 2002 8:50 am 
Sam RubyNov 9, 2002 9:29 am 
Costin ManolacheNov 9, 2002 10:23 am 
Ceki GülcüNov 9, 2002 10:49 am 
Ceki GülcüNov 9, 2002 10:58 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 9, 2002 12:33 pm 
James Duncan DavidsonNov 9, 2002 3:29 pm 
James Duncan DavidsonNov 9, 2002 3:37 pm 
Chuck MurckoNov 9, 2002 6:08 pm 
Rodent of Unusual SizeNov 10, 2002 5:29 am 
Ceki GülcüNov 10, 2002 6:22 am 
James Duncan DavidsonNov 10, 2002 9:14 am 
Stefano MazzocchiNov 11, 2002 7:05 pm 
Stephen McConnellNov 11, 2002 7:26 pm 
41 later messages
Subject:Re: Rules for Revolutionaries
From:Jeff Turner (jef@apache.org)
Date:Nov 9, 2002 2:44:42 am
List:org.apache.community

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 09:29:56AM +0100, Ceki Gülcü wrote:

I keep wondering why you keep bringing up Duncan's Whoa Bessie... mail. I mean this one:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ant-dev&m=97712718421034&w=2

Is it just for historical purposes? Is it because Duncan expresses interesting ideas with eloquence? Sure, Duncan may have been wrong in the Ant context but that should not discredit his ideas altogether.

The liberal ideas expressed by Stefano, Sam and to some extent Costin are very inspiring and definitely please a wider audience than Duncan's ideas defending the actions of a selfish pig as he puts hit. (No, I don't think that Duncan is a selfish pig and you shouldn't either.)

However, liberal ideologies are just that, ideologies. While Duncan's theory of benevolent dictators might not find favor in the eyes of this public, we should not discard it as being contrary to the Apache way.

If you mean formally, then absolutely we should, in big flashing lights :) The Benevolent Dictatorship model, where some committers' vetoes don't count as much as others, is clearly at odds with the Apache model.

We should instead recognize it as being a legitimate way of development.

Sure.

It may even be the dominant way of development at Apache under disguise.

I agree. However, Apache benevolent dictators are first among equals, with no _formal_ claim to dictatorship. The thread you reference is an affirmation of this small but crucial difference.

--Jeff