| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| 5 earlier messages | ||
| greg whitbread | Feb 15, 2012 5:05 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 15, 2012 8:03 am | |
| David Patterson | Feb 15, 2012 8:07 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 9:12 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 15, 2012 10:40 am | |
| Paul Kirk | Feb 15, 2012 10:51 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 15, 2012 11:39 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 15, 2012 12:47 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 1:06 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 15, 2012 5:49 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 15, 2012 7:19 pm | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 10:29 pm | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 16, 2012 5:12 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 16, 2012 8:24 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 16, 2012 9:45 am | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 11:57 am | |
| Bradley Boyle | Feb 16, 2012 2:45 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 16, 2012 3:10 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 3:24 pm | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 16, 2012 3:31 pm | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 4:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 4:28 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 16, 2012 7:05 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:13 pm | |
| Neal Evenhuis | Feb 16, 2012 7:27 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:38 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 7:40 pm | |
| muscapaul | Feb 17, 2012 12:16 am | |
| Dr Brian Taylor | Feb 17, 2012 12:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 17, 2012 1:25 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 7:03 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 1:09 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 2:32 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 2:51 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:16 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:18 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 3:22 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:37 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 5:06 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 5:27 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 17, 2012 7:39 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 8:04 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:59 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 11:33 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 18, 2012 6:45 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 8:59 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 12:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 5:48 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 7:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 8:09 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 8:58 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 8:59 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 9:49 am | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 19, 2012 10:29 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 19, 2012 12:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 12:45 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 2:36 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:38 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:54 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:56 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 3:08 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 4:05 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 4:07 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 5:09 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 5:18 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 5:50 pm | |
| Kenneth Kinman | Feb 19, 2012 7:27 pm | |
| Weakley, Alan | Feb 19, 2012 7:47 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 7:50 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 7:52 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 8:13 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 8:22 pm | |
| Dr.B.J.Tindall | Feb 19, 2012 11:08 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 11:52 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 11:56 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:02 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:24 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:27 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:32 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 20, 2012 3:07 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 20, 2012 7:28 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 20, 2012 8:55 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 9:07 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 20, 2012 9:40 am | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 20, 2012 10:35 am | |
| Wolfgang Lorenz | Feb 20, 2012 11:03 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 11:09 am | |
| David Campbell | Feb 20, 2012 11:41 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 21, 2012 1:03 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 21, 2012 8:26 am | |
| Francisco Welter-Schultes | Feb 21, 2012 8:48 am | |
| 25 later messages | ||
| Subject: | Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Richard Pyle (deep...@bishopmuseum.org) | |
| Date: | Feb 18, 2012 11:33:18 am | |
| List: | edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacom | |
Rich, wasn't it you in the past who pointed out the importance of circumscription to this endeavor? I think one could realistically say that for any well-characterized (with respect to types) circumscription there is only a single valid name. Maybe what we need is a better way to code circumscriptions.
Yes, I agree -- but the perpetually unanswerable argument is: "which circumscription best represents the species-level boundaries". I agree, with a clear circumscription, there is one "correct" name to use (in theory -- but different interpretations of the Codes and incomplete nomenclature can fuzz that up a bit). But the trouble is that people often disagree on the best circumscription to use (lumpers v. splitters, etc.).
I agree, that with a better mechanism for encoding circumscriptions, we could at least have cleaner conversations about this (I think this is part of what phylogenetic nomenclature approaches are on about, except that they tend to strictly define circumscriptions in terms of clades, which gets messy when introgression/hybridization is at play). Without realizing it (in most cases), taxonomists tend to use one of several different proxies for taxon circumscriptions, with different levels of granularities:
- Types/Names-based (each type specimen of a name represents a sign post within a circumscription, and circumscriptions are defined by which of these sign posts fall within them). Basically, this is represented as a synonymy, and the heterotypic synonyms are proxies for the type specimens, which are the sign posts.
- Population-based (populations are defined -- often in terms of geographic distributions -- and these populations are used as more collective sets of organisms to represent circumscription boundaries). This approach is less common.
- Specimen-based (many specimens/individuals are enumerated as members of a taxon concept circumscription, to provide a richer set of circumscription boundaries). This is often the approached taken on taxonomic revisions, with large lists of "Material Examined". The specimens are often representatives of entire populations, so this method is similar to the previous, except with finer granularity.
- Character-based (taxon circumscriptions are defined by sets of characters). This is probably the most widely used way of establishing taxon concept/circumscription boundaries. I think it's probably the most practical, but in my mind is less explicit, because at best the characters are proxies for individual organisms, and I think most people think of taxon concepts as circumscriptions of organisms, rather than of character states.
There are others on this list who understand this stuff FAR better than I.
Aloha, Rich
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