atom feed130 messages in edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacomRe: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names
FromSent OnAttachments
5 earlier messages
greg whitbreadFeb 15, 2012 5:05 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 15, 2012 8:03 am 
David PattersonFeb 15, 2012 8:07 am 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 9:12 am 
Doug YanegaFeb 15, 2012 10:40 am 
Paul KirkFeb 15, 2012 10:51 am 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 11:23 am 
Armand TurpelFeb 15, 2012 11:39 am 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 15, 2012 12:47 pm 
Jim CroftFeb 15, 2012 1:06 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 15, 2012 5:49 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 15, 2012 7:19 pm 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 10:18 pm 
Jim CroftFeb 15, 2012 10:29 pm 
Armand TurpelFeb 16, 2012 5:12 am 
Roderic PageFeb 16, 2012 8:24 am 
Doug YanegaFeb 16, 2012 9:45 am 
Chuck MillerFeb 16, 2012 11:57 am 
Bradley BoyleFeb 16, 2012 2:45 pm 
Richard ZanderFeb 16, 2012 3:10 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 3:24 pm 
Frederick W. SchuelerFeb 16, 2012 3:31 pm 
Chuck MillerFeb 16, 2012 4:14 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 4:28 pm 
Chris ThompsonFeb 16, 2012 7:05 pm 
Kim van der LindeFeb 16, 2012 7:13 pm 
Neal EvenhuisFeb 16, 2012 7:27 pm 
Kim van der LindeFeb 16, 2012 7:38 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 7:40 pm 
muscapaulFeb 17, 2012 12:16 am 
Dr Brian TaylorFeb 17, 2012 12:23 am 
Armand TurpelFeb 17, 2012 1:25 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 7:03 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 11:23 am 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 1:09 pm 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 2:04 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 17, 2012 2:32 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 2:51 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:16 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:18 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 3:22 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:37 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 5:06 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 17, 2012 5:18 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 5:27 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 8:04 pm 
Richard ZanderFeb 18, 2012 9:26 am 
Richard ZanderFeb 18, 2012 9:59 am 
Richard PyleFeb 18, 2012 11:33 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 18, 2012 6:45 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 12:36 am 
Roderic PageFeb 19, 2012 5:48 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 7:36 am 
Roderic PageFeb 19, 2012 8:09 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 8:58 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 8:59 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 9:49 am 
Frederick W. SchuelerFeb 19, 2012 10:29 am 
Richard PyleFeb 19, 2012 12:14 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 12:45 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 2:23 pm 
Walker, KenFeb 19, 2012 2:36 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 2:38 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 2:54 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 2:56 pm 
Walker, KenFeb 19, 2012 3:08 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 4:05 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 4:07 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 4:38 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 5:09 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 5:18 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 5:33 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 5:50 pm 
Kenneth KinmanFeb 19, 2012 7:27 pm 
Weakley, AlanFeb 19, 2012 7:47 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 7:50 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 7:52 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 8:13 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 8:22 pm 
Dr.B.J.TindallFeb 19, 2012 11:08 pm 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 11:52 pm 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 11:56 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 1:02 am 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 1:24 am 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 1:27 am 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 1:32 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 20, 2012 3:07 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 20, 2012 7:28 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 20, 2012 8:55 am 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 9:07 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 20, 2012 9:40 am 
Richard ZanderFeb 20, 2012 10:35 am 
Wolfgang LorenzFeb 20, 2012 11:03 am 
Richard PyleFeb 20, 2012 11:09 am 
David CampbellFeb 20, 2012 11:41 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 21, 2012 1:03 am 
Richard PyleFeb 21, 2012 8:26 am 
Francisco Welter-SchultesFeb 21, 2012 8:48 am 
25 later messages
Subject:Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names
From:Richard Pyle (deep@bishopmuseum.org)
Date:Feb 18, 2012 11:33:18 am
List:edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacom

Rich, wasn't it you in the past who pointed out the importance of circumscription to this endeavor? I think one could realistically say that for any well-characterized (with respect to types) circumscription there is only a single valid name. Maybe what we need is a better way to code circumscriptions.

Yes, I agree -- but the perpetually unanswerable argument is: "which circumscription best represents the species-level boundaries". I agree, with a clear circumscription, there is one "correct" name to use (in theory -- but different interpretations of the Codes and incomplete nomenclature can fuzz that up a bit). But the trouble is that people often disagree on the best circumscription to use (lumpers v. splitters, etc.).

I agree, that with a better mechanism for encoding circumscriptions, we could at least have cleaner conversations about this (I think this is part of what phylogenetic nomenclature approaches are on about, except that they tend to strictly define circumscriptions in terms of clades, which gets messy when introgression/hybridization is at play). Without realizing it (in most cases), taxonomists tend to use one of several different proxies for taxon circumscriptions, with different levels of granularities:

- Types/Names-based (each type specimen of a name represents a sign post within a circumscription, and circumscriptions are defined by which of these sign posts fall within them). Basically, this is represented as a synonymy, and the heterotypic synonyms are proxies for the type specimens, which are the sign posts.

- Population-based (populations are defined -- often in terms of geographic distributions -- and these populations are used as more collective sets of organisms to represent circumscription boundaries). This approach is less common.

- Specimen-based (many specimens/individuals are enumerated as members of a taxon concept circumscription, to provide a richer set of circumscription boundaries). This is often the approached taken on taxonomic revisions, with large lists of "Material Examined". The specimens are often representatives of entire populations, so this method is similar to the previous, except with finer granularity.

- Character-based (taxon circumscriptions are defined by sets of characters). This is probably the most widely used way of establishing taxon concept/circumscription boundaries. I think it's probably the most practical, but in my mind is less explicit, because at best the characters are proxies for individual organisms, and I think most people think of taxon concepts as circumscriptions of organisms, rather than of character states.

There are others on this list who understand this stuff FAR better than I.

Aloha, Rich

This message is only intended for the addressee named above. Its contents may
be privileged or otherwise protected. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or
copying of this message or its contents is prohibited. If you have received
this message by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply mail or by
collect telephone call. Any personal opinions expressed in this message do not
necessarily represent the views of the Bishop Museum.

_______________________________________________

Taxacom Mailing List Taxa@mailman.nhm.ku.edu http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as: site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom
your search terms here