RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor tregistration? - Richard Jacob - org.oasis-open.lists.wsrp-wsia

310 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.wsrp-wsiaRE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173]...

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Subject:	RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor tregistration?
From:	Richard Jacob (rich...@de.ibm.com)
Date:	Feb 26, 2003 7:29:38 am
List:	org.oasis-open.lists.wsrp-wsia

this sounds like a good proposal for me

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,

Richard Jacob

______________________________________________________ IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469 - Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888 Email: mailto:rich...@de.ibm.com

|---------+----------------------------> | | Andre Kramer | | | <andre.kramer@eu.| | | citrix.com> | | | | | | 02/26/2003 04:08 | | | PM | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org | | cc: | | Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration? | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Our [R] boolean requiresRegistration (requires registration by some method) and a new [O] String[] registrationMethods, with "wsrp-registration-in-band" pre-defined would help to disambiguate registration requirements. Especially, if requiresRegistration is true means registrationMethods[] must have at least one entry.

regards, Andre

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Jacob [mailto:rich...@de.ibm.com] Sent: 26 February 2003 14:48 To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration?

a) differen URLs for the service WSDLs? b) agree c) true

ok, so would we need to change the flag from true or false to: - none: does not require registration at all - in-band: reguires to register using the registration port type - out-of-band: requires to register by any other mechanisms but not in-band - both: reguires registration either in-band or out-of-band, the consumer may choose

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,

Richard Jacob

|---------+----------------------------> | | Andre Kramer | | | <andre.kramer@eu.| | | citrix.com> | | | | | | 02/26/2003 02:54 | | | PM | |---------+---------------------------->

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Not a very useful state of affairs, I would claim, as: a) it is hard to conditionally expose a port type (e.g. internal / external network) b) requiresRegistration does not direct a consumer to actually use the port type if exposed c) does not provide the consumer with list of alternative registration methods

regards, Andre

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Jacob [mailto:rich...@de.ibm.com] Sent: 26 February 2003 13:38 To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration?

I agree. As I stated below the flag doesn't say anything about the how and I think it should not.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,

Richard Jacob

|---------+----------------------------> | | Rich | | | Thompson/Watson/I| | | BM@IBMUS | | | | | | 02/26/2003 02:26 | | | PM | |---------+---------------------------->

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I think this thread is mixing orthogonal items. The requiresRegistration flag indicates that registration is required in order to use the rest of the web service, but says nothing about how one is to register. Exposing the Registration portType indicates that in-band registration is supported. We have nothing that indicates out-of-band registration is supported.

So for this last example, I would suggest the ServiceDescription have requiresRegistration='true' for both the internal and external Consumers. Internal Consumers would find the Registration portType exposed while external Consumers would not. I would also suggest using the extensions element to provide registration instructions to external Consumers.

Rich Thompson

Andre Kramer <andr...@eu.citrix.com> 02/26/2003 07:15 AM

To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org cc: Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration?

Yes, but that, for me, implies that requiresRegistration really does mean requiresOnlineRegistration. Otherwise, I think it would be wrong to use the flag in this (selective) way to direct consumers to register online. How would you say "do some form of external registration process but don't use the registeration web service if you are outside the firewall" and still allow internal consumers to register online?

regards, Andre

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Jacob [mailto:rich...@de.ibm.com] Sent: 26 February 2003 12:02 To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration?

wouldn't it solve your use case if you delivered different serviceDescriptions for each of the "customers"? For external: set requiresRegistration=true. They see the registration port type (as you said) and register online. If they don't see it they know they need to register offline. For internal: set requiresRegistration=false. The don't register and use the "null" context.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,

Richard Jacob

|---------+----------------------------> | | Andre Kramer | | | <andre.kramer@eu.| | | citrix.com> | | | | | | 02/25/2003 07:14 | | | PM | |---------+---------------------------->

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Here is my use case for a hypothetical producer: I would like to publish one wsdl for all my consumers to use. Some of my potential consumers are outside my firewall while others (more trusted ones I hope) are inside the firewall. Both kinds do getServiceDescription() and the producer leverages some unspecified transport level security to classify requestors as inside/outside my firewall. I would like to be able to tell the external ones that they are required to do online registration while I will let the internal ones use portlets without always registering first. I would like to use ServiceDescription.requiresOnlineRegistration (response to getServiceDescription) to direct outside consumers to register.

Not a "must have", but why would tightening the semantics to "requires online registration" hurt? At worst, a consumer gets a soap fault if it supplies a null registration context to a producer service that requires (some unspecified form of offline) registration.

regards, Andre

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Jacob [mailto:rich...@de.ibm.com] Sent: 25 February 2003 16:32 To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to support registration?

my understanding of the requiresRegistration field was thet the producer might state that the "null-Registration" context is useless, say if a Consumer wants to use this Producer it must register first. It does not say _how_ to establish a registation context, i.e. in-band or out-of-band. If we need to define the how we should have a flag like "supportsInlineRegistration". But I thought that this is expressed by supporting the registration port type. There are several means to find out if this port type is supported. Óne of them might be an appropriate model in registries like UDDI. Another one is WSDL introspection. Or as some prefer: "Google" :-)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,

Richard Jacob

|---------+----------------------------> | | Rich | | | Thompson/Watson/I| | | BM@IBMUS | | | | | | 02/21/2003 06:51 | | | PM | |---------+---------------------------->

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More fundamentally, there is a difference between supporting registration and requiring it. The semantics of the statement in question relate to supporting registration while the reference is to the flag which only reflects whether or not registration is required.

Rich Thompson

Andre Kramer <andr...@eu.citrix.com> 02/21/2003 11:27 AM

To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org cc: Subject: RE: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to suppor t registration?

We could rename "requiresRegistration" to "requiresOnlineRegistration".

Or instead, have a

String[] registrationMethods in ServiceDescription, with "wsrp-registration" meaning online, other values unspecified.

Even for 1.0, I do not think we should require consumers to look into the WSDL service details. URLs for endpoints could be obtained through other means (e.g. UDDI), and one URL may even be multiplexed to more than one factor, so the only way to check the online registration requirement would be to attempt to call register(), if we make this flag only mean "requires some form of registration".

regards, Andre

-----Original Message----- From: Rich Thompson [mailto:ric...@us.ibm.com] Sent: 21 February 2003 15:59 To: wsrp...@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [wsrp-wsia] [change request #173] What does it mean to support registration?

Document: Spec Section: 8.3 Page/Line: 52 / 20-22 Requested by: Rich Thompson

Old text: If the Producer's metadata declares registration is not supported (i.e. requiresRegistration flag was set to "false"), then the Consumer MUST

Proposed text: If the Producer's metadata declares registration is not supported (i.e. requiresRegistration flag was set to "false" and Registraton portType is not bound to a port), then the Consumer MUST

Reasoning: The Producer can support registration without requiring it.

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