40 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-archRe: Avoiding unnecessary breakage (wa...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Mike Barcroft | Jun 1, 2002 10:00 pm |  .diff, .diff |
| Bruce Evans | Jun 2, 2002 8:21 am | |
| Mike Barcroft | Jun 3, 2002 4:07 pm | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 3, 2002 4:24 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 4:49 pm | |
| Garance A Drosihn | Jun 3, 2002 5:51 pm | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 3, 2002 6:15 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 6:24 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 6:33 pm | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 3, 2002 6:37 pm | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 3, 2002 6:38 pm | |
| John Baldwin | Jun 3, 2002 6:42 pm | |
| Will Andrews | Jun 3, 2002 8:42 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 11:22 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 11:42 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 3, 2002 11:44 pm | |
| Bakul Shah | Jun 4, 2002 10:52 am | |
| Garance A Drosihn | Jun 4, 2002 11:34 am | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 4, 2002 2:09 pm | |
| Brian Somers | Jun 4, 2002 2:20 pm | |
| Garrett Wollman | Jun 4, 2002 2:30 pm | |
| Poul-Henning Kamp | Jun 4, 2002 2:55 pm | |
| Mike Barcroft | Jun 4, 2002 4:07 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 4:08 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 4:10 pm | |
| Mike Barcroft | Jun 4, 2002 4:18 pm | |
| Garance A Drosihn | Jun 4, 2002 4:26 pm | |
| Kris Kennaway | Jun 4, 2002 4:30 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 4:30 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 4:49 pm | |
| Bakul Shah | Jun 4, 2002 5:50 pm | |
| Mike Barcroft | Jun 4, 2002 7:11 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 7:49 pm | |
| Garance A Drosihn | Jun 4, 2002 7:50 pm | |
| Steve Kargl | Jun 4, 2002 7:57 pm | |
| Alfred Perlstein | Jun 4, 2002 8:15 pm | |
| Terry Lambert | Jun 4, 2002 9:06 pm | |
| Brian Somers | Jun 5, 2002 11:24 am | |
| Garance A Drosihn | Jun 5, 2002 2:37 pm | |
| David O'Brien | Jun 6, 2002 10:16 am |
| Subject: | Re: Avoiding unnecessary breakage (was Re: Removing wait union) | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Terry Lambert (tlam...@mindspring.com) | |
| Date: | Jun 4, 2002 4:49:10 pm | |
| List: | org.freebsd.freebsd-arch | |
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
At 10:20 PM +0100 6/4/02, Brian Somers wrote:
Many software vendors would say that a published interface can only be removed after two major releases of the software. [...]
Personally, I think FreeBSD should adopt such a strategy.
Note that there *is* some attempt to do that, for many of the changes we do. That effort, when it happens, still does not protect us from annoying people with "disruptive" changes.
Personally, I am all for disruptive changes, if they represent progress toward an agreed upon goal.
Note, for instance, that the issue which triggered this thread was the removal of 'union wait'.
Actually, it was the *proposal* to remove "union wait" that was the trigger. It was an entre into the larger issue of the acceptability of interface changes without "enviornmental impact statements".
it seems like 'union wait' has been depreciated since 1994!
It has not been deprecated in the same way that "malloc.h" and "struct.h" and "values.h" have been deprecated. The deprecation has been comparatively very silent.
And yet here we have people all a flutter about how we are making an incompatible change and we might be breaking ports.
I picked the subject carefully: "Avoiding unnecessary breakage".
As I said above: Personally, I am all for disruptive changes, if they represent progress toward an agreed upon goal.
In other words "Embrace necessary breakage".
So, in short (who? me? short?), I think there are changes where FreeBSD does a good job at trying to soften the transition -- and that we do not give ourselves enough credit when we do that. At the same time, there are other changes which are more abrupt, but sometimes the abrupt change is done because mapping a smooth transition will require a great deal more work. And with a volunteer group, it isn't always easy to find people who are willing to do that extra work.
Historically, this has been David Greenman's job, as Architect.
When David efectively deactivated himself, as outside events ate more and more of his time, the project has suffered.
I don't think there is a simple fix; maybe I'm wrong: I'd like to be, in this case.
Raising awareness is short-term helpful: I think there are a lot more people who are now considering the larger consequences of the changes they would like to make. On the other hand, I have yet to see one case of an epidemic that was cured solely by way of better education.
-- Terry
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