| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Ken Nagorski | Jan 16, 2002 2:35 pm | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 16, 2002 6:49 pm | |
| Juha Saarinen | Jan 16, 2002 7:05 pm | |
| Aly S.P Dharshi | Jan 16, 2002 7:12 pm | |
| Tomas Fasth | Jan 17, 2002 1:19 am | |
| Odhiambo Washington | Jan 17, 2002 2:34 am | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 17, 2002 3:11 am | |
| Marcus Felipe Pereira | Jan 17, 2002 6:22 am | |
| drea...@dreamwvr.com | Jan 17, 2002 7:33 am | |
| drea...@dreamwvr.com | Jan 17, 2002 7:52 am | |
| Gordon Messmer | Jan 17, 2002 8:07 am | |
| Aly S.P Dharshi | Jan 17, 2002 8:11 am | |
| Papo Napolitano | Jan 17, 2002 9:00 am | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 17, 2002 12:26 pm | |
| Tomas Fasth | Jan 17, 2002 1:47 pm | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 17, 2002 3:35 pm | |
| Sam Varshavchik | Jan 17, 2002 3:53 pm | |
| Petr Burian | Jan 17, 2002 4:51 pm | |
| Marcus Felipe Pereira | Jan 18, 2002 6:26 am | |
| Alexei Batyr' | Jan 18, 2002 9:01 am | |
| Roland Schneider | Jan 18, 2002 9:24 am | |
| Bill Williamson | Jan 18, 2002 9:29 am | |
| Aly S.P Dharshi | Jan 18, 2002 9:37 am | |
| William Hue | Jan 18, 2002 9:58 am | |
| William Hue | Jan 18, 2002 12:25 pm | |
| Petr Burian | Jan 18, 2002 1:09 pm | |
| William Hue | Jan 18, 2002 1:42 pm | |
| Yarema | Jan 18, 2002 1:44 pm | |
| Sam Varshavchik | Jan 18, 2002 6:12 pm | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 18, 2002 7:50 pm | |
| Sysop | Jan 18, 2002 9:36 pm | |
| David Ehle | Jan 18, 2002 9:55 pm | |
| Bill Williamson | Jan 18, 2002 10:01 pm | |
| Tomas Fasth | Jan 19, 2002 9:41 am | |
| Tomas Fasth | Jan 19, 2002 10:10 am | |
| Marcus Felipe Pereira | Jan 19, 2002 12:38 pm | |
| Mark Constable | Jan 19, 2002 11:12 pm | |
| John Laur | Jan 20, 2002 1:21 pm | |
| Olivier Poitrey | Jan 21, 2002 2:46 am | |
| Alexei Batyr' | Jan 21, 2002 5:37 am | |
| Olivier Poitrey | Jan 21, 2002 6:31 am | |
| Sam Varshavchik | Jan 21, 2002 8:14 am | |
| Stefan Kruger | Jan 23, 2002 8:21 am | |
| John Kloss | Jan 23, 2002 8:30 am | |
| Sam Varshavchik | Jan 23, 2002 3:11 pm | |
| Chester Wisniewski | Jan 23, 2002 3:50 pm |
| Subject: | Re: [courier-users] Re: RFC2045_ERR8BITHEADER and RFC2045_ERR8BIT (Half OT) | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | John Laur (joh...@blurbco.com) | |
| Date: | Jan 20, 2002 1:21:41 pm | |
| List: | net.sourceforge.lists.courier-users | |
This repsonse really has only half to do with Courier, but when you really
get down tobusiness, most binary packages distributed with any distribution
(especially debian)do not work or behave exactly as the "stock" configure, make,
make
install, would have thembehaving. There are few packages that don't include some
sort of tweak,
changed"defaults", initscripts, location of conffiles, etc.
If I intend to compile and
install a piece of software from source code that is destined for a server
with a largenumber of users, it is in my best interest to be intimately familiar
with
the operation ofthat software. I usually start by looking at the Debian
packager's diff
(even if I'm notcompiling for debian) as they often contain easy and tested
alterations I
like. A lot ofthese modifications never go (and don't even belong) upstream.
As far as the problem of a
patch causing "an extra iteration of attention from the tech staff", I
would have tosuggest looking into getting a tech staff that considers patches
and
staged test setupsstandard procedure when installing software. Then, at least
you are paying
for an extrahour of their time versus countless money wasted on support staff
trying
to BS a response ina situation where the customer is probably right on the
money!
Now the ontoppic part --
Personally, I support Sam coding the software however he wants. If the
style is toopurist for you, then patch, or use something else. Start a community
patch
to include the"non-standard" features people want that Sam doesnt want to
include. Lots
of projects havesomething like this. It seems a lot of the anger here is
misdirected at
Sam for notimmediately including a feature that was never there in the first
place,
simply becausethere is a hack for it. Mail used to BOUNCE! Error messages were
hard
coded in the sourcefile! Now it gets delivered in an ultra-sane and paranoid
manner.
Think writing a web
browser. It's easiest to start from a point at which your browser is a
100% correct parserfor perfectly formated and versioned HTML, then add the
features that
allow it to deal withthe quirks of webpages in the real world: missing tags,
bugs in popular
browsers, mixedhtml DTD versions, etc. This courier situation is no different.
Please use your energy
wisely. Instead of complaining, why not expand the 4 line patch into
something that isactually complete and includable! Maybe it adds the 8 bit MIME
header and
encodes or adds an"X-Warning: Not 7-bit clean" header to messages that violate
the rule if
the option is on.Maybe it includes the courierwebadmin code to toggle this
setting, and the
documentationto explain it to people. Maybe it puts the entry in the sample conf
files.
Maybe it givesoptions for bypassing or skipping other RFC checks too. It's not
like
there aren't optionsin courier already that aren't exactly 100% RFC correct (See
the BOFH*
options forinstance), It's just not on Sam's agenda right now, but it's not like
you
can't ever expectthe option to be there.
I just wish everyone would chill out and stop griping, already.
There really is no point, and all you're going to do is piss Sam off to
the point at which hedoesn't care anymore. Then you really will have somehting
to complain about.
Kudos to
you, Sam for your software. It is definately the best system for me, and
the tiny patches Iapply now are nothing compared to the monster hacks I had to
use on other
software to achievethe same degree of functionality! Thanks.
John Laur
My concern is for the courier mail package as a whole.
I think it's the best mail system available and Sams support on this list is excellent. My argument is simply that Sam make this RFC2045 check OPTIONAL otherwise any ISP with enough clients will NOT be able to run a stock standard courier install. That means all those RPM and DEB based servers out there will require an extra iteration of attention from tech staff that may prevent the adoption of the courier system in the first place... that bothers me because I want to see this system deployed as widely as possible so it gets major support from all involved and remains the best mail system on the planet.
I am not the first and I certainly will not be the last person to take issue with this problem.
Please note this is not an imflamatory response.
--markc





