atom feed246 messages in org.w3.www-styleRe: CSS3 @font-face / EOT Fonts - new...
FromSent OnAttachments
88 earlier messages
Dave CrosslandNov 11, 2008 3:35 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 3:39 pm 
Tab Atkins Jr.Nov 11, 2008 3:46 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 3:49 pm 
Dave CrosslandNov 11, 2008 3:52 pm 
Dave SingerNov 11, 2008 3:53 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 4:04 pm 
Ian HicksonNov 11, 2008 4:05 pm 
Gustavo FerreiraNov 11, 2008 4:05 pm 
Dave SingerNov 11, 2008 4:12 pm 
Robert O'CallahanNov 11, 2008 4:17 pm 
Robert O'CallahanNov 11, 2008 4:21 pm 
Dave SingerNov 11, 2008 4:24 pm 
Gustavo FerreiraNov 11, 2008 4:26 pm 
Aryeh GregorNov 11, 2008 4:30 pm 
Ian HicksonNov 11, 2008 4:30 pm 
Dave CrosslandNov 11, 2008 4:35 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 4:36 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 4:44 pm 
Gustavo FerreiraNov 11, 2008 5:05 pm 
Sylvain GalineauNov 11, 2008 5:10 pm 
Robert O'CallahanNov 11, 2008 5:19 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 11, 2008 5:36 pm 
Robert O'CallahanNov 11, 2008 5:54 pm 
Zack WeinbergNov 11, 2008 6:37 pm 
Thomas PhinneyNov 11, 2008 6:38 pm 
Gustavo FerreiraNov 11, 2008 6:52 pm 
Boris ZbarskyNov 11, 2008 7:01 pm 
Thomas PhinneyNov 11, 2008 8:40 pm 
John DaggettNov 12, 2008 1:11 am 
Mirko GustonyNov 12, 2008 1:12 am 
H=?iso-8859-1?B?5Q==?=kon Wium LieNov 12, 2008 1:14 am 
Dave CrosslandNov 12, 2008 4:23 am 
Dave CrosslandNov 12, 2008 4:54 am 
Philip TAYLOR (Ret'd)Nov 12, 2008 5:03 am 
Dave CrosslandNov 12, 2008 5:32 am 
Philip TAYLOR (Ret'd)Nov 12, 2008 5:51 am 
H=?iso-8859-1?B?5Q==?=kon Wium LieNov 12, 2008 5:53 am 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 12, 2008 6:14 am 
Aryeh GregorNov 12, 2008 6:33 am 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 12, 2008 7:13 am 
Mikko RantalainenNov 12, 2008 7:48 am 
Bert BosNov 12, 2008 7:53 am 
Brad KemperNov 12, 2008 8:36 am 
Zack WeinbergNov 12, 2008 8:37 am 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 12, 2008 9:09 am 
Robert O'CallahanNov 12, 2008 12:48 pm 
Brad KemperNov 12, 2008 1:11 pm 
Levantovsky, VladimirNov 12, 2008 1:20 pm 
Thomas PhinneyNov 12, 2008 1:31 pm 
108 later messages
Subject:Re: CSS3 @font-face / EOT Fonts - new compromise proposal
From:Zack Weinberg (zwei@mozilla.com)
Date:Nov 11, 2008 6:37:11 pm
List:org.w3.www-style

(I didn't mean this subthread to fall off the mailing list; I'm forwarding it back now.)

"Levantovsky, Vladimir" <Vlad@MonotypeImaging.com> wrote:

Zack Weinberg wrote:

(Would you please use standard email notation for quotes? In your past several messages it has been quite difficult to tell which words were yours and which were quoted.)

Sorry, Outlook doesn't let me use standard email notation for quotes when the incoming message is written in RTF or HTML format. In those cases it uses a colored text to differentiate quotes from different people.

Well, the coloring is completely lost when you send the message. Could you please talk to your sysadmin about that?

Rob is being reasonable. It's not possible for Mozilla to implement "TCPA-style down-to-the-metal DRM" ...

No, this is not what I want! Nobody had asked for "TCPA-style down-to-the-metal DRM". Had it happened, I would have agreed with you that the demand to do it would have been unreasonable. EOT was the only proposal on the table and, so far, I've been as flexible as I can to work around the issues that people didn't like about EOT.

From Mozilla's point of view, the various obfuscated font proposals that are being discussed are different from down-to-the-metal DRM only in that there is no *technical* reason why we couldn't implement them. We still have to talk to our lawyers about all of them, because we don't know if we can implement anything that has the effect of restricting what an end user can do with a blob of data they got off the net without exposing ourselves, people who reuse our code, or our end-users to additional legal risk -- even if nobody is actually violating anyone's copyright.

Now, speaking only for myself, I am not a fan of systems that make web authors who are doing entirely legitimate things jump through extra hoops. EOT was definitely such, and I'm dubious about root strings. I'm also dubious of proposals that involve the browser paying attention to the embedding bits in unobfuscated TTF or OTF -- I think that could easily break legitimate uses.

The compression-only plan you've been talking about might be okay, but there would need to be tools for working with the compressed format widely available under Free licenses, the MIME issues would need to be sorted, and so on.

I am sympathetic to your concerns and I do appreciate yours and Rob's efforts. As a new member of W3C, Monotype Imaging has made a submission that is governed by the W3C rules and policies (including W3C RF Patent policy), with no exceptions and no special provisions (see http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/01/). I do not see any reason why our submission could possibly be treated any different than submissions from other W3C members made under the same policies, which, as Rob has admitted, you have implemented in the past.

The problem is that your submission does not include an actual patent license, only a promise to provide a patent license at some time in the future, with terms unspecified. That may be fine by the W3C, but we need an actual patent license that makes no restriction on the use to which the code is put, before we can include the feature in anything we ship. (This is completely independent of the legal concerns I mentioned above.)

zw