| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| 39 earlier messages | ||
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 5:18 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 5:26 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 5:33 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:20 am | |
| Tony Collen | Oct 3, 2005 6:28 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 6:35 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 3, 2005 6:43 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 6:44 am | |
| Berin Loritsch | Oct 3, 2005 7:14 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 7:18 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 7:29 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:02 am | |
| Jorg Heymans | Oct 3, 2005 8:08 am | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 3, 2005 8:19 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 3, 2005 8:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 3, 2005 8:36 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:41 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 3, 2005 8:44 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:53 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 3, 2005 8:57 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 8:59 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 9:00 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 3, 2005 9:04 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 9:11 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 3, 2005 9:20 am | |
| Berin Loritsch | Oct 3, 2005 9:34 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 10:07 am | |
| Ross Gardler | Oct 3, 2005 10:17 am | |
| Luca Morandini | Oct 3, 2005 10:30 am | |
| Nicola Ken Barozzi | Oct 3, 2005 10:44 am | |
| Antonio Gallardo | Oct 3, 2005 12:30 pm | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 3, 2005 1:38 pm | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 4, 2005 1:08 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 4, 2005 2:16 am | |
| Pier Fumagalli | Oct 4, 2005 2:31 am | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 4, 2005 2:36 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 4, 2005 3:01 am | |
| Andrew Savory | Oct 4, 2005 3:13 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 4, 2005 3:17 am | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 4, 2005 3:29 am | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 4, 2005 3:39 am | |
| Torsten Curdt | Oct 4, 2005 3:47 am | |
| hepabolu | Oct 4, 2005 4:00 am | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 4, 2005 4:39 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 4, 2005 4:57 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 4, 2005 5:48 am | |
| Arje Cahn | Oct 4, 2005 5:55 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 4, 2005 9:08 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 4, 2005 9:24 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 4, 2005 12:43 pm | |
| Steven Noels | Oct 5, 2005 3:57 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 10, 2005 5:02 am | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 11, 2005 2:03 pm | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 11, 2005 8:01 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 11, 2005 8:16 pm | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 11, 2005 8:35 pm | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 11, 2005 11:20 pm | |
| Max Pfingsthorn | Oct 12, 2005 12:31 am | |
| Torsten Curdt | Oct 12, 2005 12:32 am | |
| Bertrand Delacretaz | Oct 12, 2005 12:58 am | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 12, 2005 1:34 am | |
| Carsten Ziegeler | Oct 12, 2005 2:21 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 12, 2005 4:52 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 8:58 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 9:01 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 12, 2005 9:20 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 12, 2005 9:38 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 9:47 am | |
| Niclas Hedhman | Oct 12, 2005 10:04 am | |
| Upayavira | Oct 12, 2005 11:57 am | |
| hepabolu | Oct 12, 2005 12:43 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 2:09 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 2:18 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 12, 2005 2:20 pm | |
| Sylvain Wallez | Oct 12, 2005 2:35 pm | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 12, 2005 2:47 pm | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 13, 2005 2:41 am | |
| Reinhard Poetz | Oct 13, 2005 3:25 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 13, 2005 8:07 am | |
| Ralph Goers | Oct 13, 2005 9:14 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 13, 2005 9:22 am | |
| Ralph Goers | Oct 13, 2005 9:44 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 13, 2005 9:56 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 13, 2005 10:01 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 13, 2005 10:05 am | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 13, 2005 1:59 pm | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 13, 2005 2:03 pm | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 13, 2005 2:05 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 13, 2005 3:25 pm | |
| Reinhard Poetz | Oct 13, 2005 10:57 pm | |
| Daniel Fagerstrom | Oct 14, 2005 2:05 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 14, 2005 6:01 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 14, 2005 6:06 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 14, 2005 11:34 am | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | Oct 14, 2005 11:45 am | |
| Reinhard Poetz | Oct 15, 2005 1:38 am | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 15, 2005 1:40 am | |
| Joerg Heinicke | Oct 15, 2005 1:45 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 15, 2005 8:53 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Oct 15, 2005 9:08 am | |
| 3 later messages | ||
| Subject: | Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete? | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Carsten Ziegeler (czie...@apache.org) | |
| Date: | Oct 4, 2005 12:43:50 pm | |
| List: | org.apache.cocoon.dev | |
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Stefano,
We are a large number of people who got inspired of your visions and have spent years on develop and implement them. Some have even built companies around Cocoon. Now everyone who want to start using Cocoon in a project, sell products based on it or services have to fight:
"The founder of Cocoon find it obsolete."
Read http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/94/ before putting words in my mouth.
The problem is imho that people tend to think in headlines - like the one above. So whatever you tell in the following three hundred pages or whatever is irrelevant to 99%. And this means the message most people get is exactly how Daniel has put it. Everywhere I go I'm faced with scared users asking me "What should we use know as Cocoon is dead?" (I replaced obsolete with dead here to make it more dramatically - also people are asking exactly this question). And what should I answer them? "Oh, it wasn't meant this way, it's just a wake up call." Now, you can imagine which questions are asked next.
So I agree with Daniel here that the whole "wake up call" (if it was any) was not the best thing that could happen for Cocoon.
And we as a community should not start running around like headless chickens crying out "I saw the light, we were so wrong. We must do something! But what?". We all know what we should do next, we already knew it before this mail and all we have to do is just continuing the work - so in the end less discussions about what we should do and how great everything could be and more doing.
Talking without doing is absolutely useless imho.
Carsten -- Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG http://www.s-und-n.de http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/





