107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| 11 earlier messages | ||
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 6, 2002 6:54 pm | |
| Daniel Rall | Nov 6, 2002 10:11 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 7, 2002 3:43 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 7, 2002 4:11 am | |
| Ted Husted | Nov 7, 2002 4:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 7, 2002 5:33 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 7, 2002 8:01 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 7, 2002 9:27 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 7, 2002 12:39 pm | |
| Rich Bowen | Nov 8, 2002 4:35 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 9:06 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 8, 2002 1:49 pm | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 8, 2002 2:04 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 2:46 pm | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 8, 2002 3:11 pm | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 8, 2002 3:48 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 4:02 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 4:56 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 5:02 pm | |
| Martin van den Bemt | Nov 8, 2002 5:13 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 5:48 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 8, 2002 5:50 pm | |
| James Taylor | Nov 8, 2002 5:56 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 5:57 pm | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 8, 2002 6:04 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 8, 2002 6:16 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 6:37 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 8, 2002 6:40 pm | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 12:29 am | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 9, 2002 2:44 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 3:26 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:13 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:25 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 9, 2002 4:27 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:31 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:35 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 9, 2002 4:36 am | |
| Danny Angus | Nov 9, 2002 4:39 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 4:50 am | |
| Martin van den Bemt | Nov 9, 2002 5:21 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 6:28 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 9, 2002 8:49 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 9, 2002 9:29 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 9, 2002 10:23 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 10:49 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 9, 2002 10:58 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 9, 2002 12:32 pm | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 9, 2002 3:29 pm | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 9, 2002 3:37 pm | |
| Chuck Murcko | Nov 9, 2002 6:07 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 10, 2002 5:29 am | |
| Ceki Gülcü | Nov 10, 2002 6:21 am | |
| James Duncan Davidson | Nov 10, 2002 9:14 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 11, 2002 7:05 pm | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 11, 2002 7:26 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 11, 2002 7:41 pm | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 11, 2002 7:42 pm | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 11, 2002 7:43 pm | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | Nov 11, 2002 9:34 pm | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | Nov 11, 2002 9:35 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 11, 2002 9:50 pm | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 11, 2002 11:17 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 12, 2002 7:18 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 12, 2002 7:24 am | |
| Martin van den Bemt | Nov 12, 2002 8:18 am | |
| Joe Schaefer | Nov 12, 2002 8:19 am | |
| Jeff Turner | Nov 12, 2002 8:20 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 12, 2002 8:28 am | |
| Henri Yandell | Nov 12, 2002 8:41 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 12, 2002 9:57 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 12, 2002 10:14 am | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | Nov 12, 2002 11:38 am | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 12, 2002 12:18 pm | |
| Glenn Nielsen | Nov 12, 2002 7:04 pm | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 13, 2002 2:23 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 3:49 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 3:55 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 4:02 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 4:20 am | |
| Stephen McConnell | Nov 13, 2002 4:20 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 13, 2002 6:44 am | |
| Joe Schaefer | Nov 13, 2002 7:37 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 8:49 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 13, 2002 10:01 am | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 10:15 am | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 13, 2002 11:16 am | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | Nov 13, 2002 11:44 am | |
| Costin Manolache | Nov 13, 2002 12:10 pm | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | Nov 13, 2002 5:37 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Nov 14, 2002 9:54 am | |
| Daniel Rall | Nov 15, 2002 2:44 pm | |
| Sam Ruby | Nov 15, 2002 7:28 pm | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | Nov 15, 2002 8:09 pm | |
| Henri Gomez | Nov 18, 2002 9:56 am | |
| Henri Gomez | Nov 18, 2002 10:00 am | |
| Henri Gomez | Nov 18, 2002 11:26 pm | |
| Subject: | Re: Rules for Revolutionaries | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Chuck Murcko (chu...@topsail.org) | |
| Date: | Nov 9, 2002 6:07:53 pm | |
| List: | org.apache.community | |
On Saturday, November 9, 2002, at 03:44 AM, Jeff Turner wrote:
On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 09:29:56AM +0100, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
I keep wondering why you keep bringing up Duncan's Whoa Bessie... mail. I mean this one:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ant-dev&m=97712718421034&w=2
Is it just for historical purposes? Is it because Duncan expresses interesting ideas with eloquence? Sure, Duncan may have been wrong in the Ant context but that should not discredit his ideas altogether.
The liberal ideas expressed by Stefano, Sam and to some extent Costin are very inspiring and definitely please a wider audience than Duncan's ideas defending the actions of a selfish pig as he puts hit. (No, I don't think that Duncan is a selfish pig and you shouldn't either.)
However, liberal ideologies are just that, ideologies. While Duncan's theory of benevolent dictators might not find favor in the eyes of this public, we should not discard it as being contrary to the Apache way.
If you mean formally, then absolutely we should, in big flashing lights :) The Benevolent Dictatorship model, where some committers' vetoes don't count as much as others, is clearly at odds with the Apache model.
We should instead recognize it as being a legitimate way of development.
Sure.
It may even be the dominant way of development at Apache under disguise.
I agree. However, Apache benevolent dictators are first among equals, with no _formal_ claim to dictatorship. The thread you reference is an affirmation of this small but crucial difference.
Actually ASF is more of a federal meritocracy. For a benevolent dictatorship, the FSF (or perhaps the post-Jimmy Carter US or ancient Rome) is a better example. Andrew and I already had a long discussion on this on reorg@.
Chuck