|Rick Hamell||Feb 8, 2001 12:06 pm|
|Rick Hamell||Feb 8, 2001 12:23 pm|
|Rick Hamell||Feb 8, 2001 1:27 pm|
|Rick Hamell||Feb 8, 2001 3:39 pm|
|SILVER, MICHAEL A||Feb 9, 2001 11:25 am|
|SILVER, MICHAEL A||Feb 9, 2001 11:53 am|
|Jim Allen||Feb 9, 2001 12:08 pm|
|sarj||Feb 9, 2001 12:20 pm|
|Yong Lim||Feb 9, 2001 12:28 pm|
|Joe....@smed.com||Feb 9, 2001 12:38 pm|
|Joe....@smed.com||Feb 9, 2001 12:54 pm|
|Doug Young||Feb 9, 2001 1:09 pm|
|Joe....@smed.com||Feb 9, 2001 1:22 pm|
|Libby Charles-CCL044||Feb 9, 2001 1:33 pm|
|Kelly Hendrix||Feb 9, 2001 2:10 pm|
|sarj||Feb 9, 2001 2:17 pm|
|Sue Blake||Feb 9, 2001 2:58 pm|
|Joe....@smed.com||Feb 9, 2001 3:27 pm|
|Brian Astill||Feb 9, 2001 3:52 pm|
|webmaster||Feb 9, 2001 4:25 pm|
|ML Duke||Feb 9, 2001 4:31 pm|
|ML Duke||Feb 9, 2001 6:54 pm|
|rootman||Feb 9, 2001 7:10 pm|
|Greg Lehey||Feb 9, 2001 7:51 pm|
|Ted Mittelstaedt||Feb 9, 2001 10:48 pm|
|Sue Blake||Feb 10, 2001 12:06 am|
|Y||Feb 10, 2001 1:52 am|
|Y||Feb 10, 2001 2:19 am|
|Sue Blake||Feb 10, 2001 3:07 am|
|Ted Mittelstaedt||Feb 10, 2001 4:13 am|
|rootman||Feb 10, 2001 6:05 am|
|Jim Allen||Feb 10, 2001 8:28 am|
|rootman||Feb 10, 2001 8:57 am|
|rootman||Feb 10, 2001 9:35 am|
|Sue Blake||Feb 10, 2001 9:48 am|
|Jim Allen||Feb 10, 2001 9:58 am|
|Jim Allen||Feb 10, 2001 10:02 am|
|Y||Feb 10, 2001 11:48 am|
|Kelly Hendrix||Feb 10, 2001 12:07 pm|
|Doug Young||Feb 11, 2001 2:33 am|
|David Johnson||Feb 12, 2001 9:48 am|
|Ted Mittelstaedt||Feb 12, 2001 3:23 pm|
|Jonathan M. Bresler||Feb 18, 2001 7:08 pm|
|Joe Warner||Feb 18, 2001 7:19 pm|
|Doug Young||Feb 19, 2001 1:47 am|
|Sue Blake||Feb 19, 2001 11:23 am|
|Greg Lehey||Feb 19, 2001 6:57 pm|
|Jonathan M. Bresler||Feb 20, 2001 4:20 pm|
|Brian Astill||Feb 20, 2001 6:58 pm|
|Jonathan M. Bresler||Feb 20, 2001 7:31 pm|
|Joe Warner||Feb 20, 2001 7:38 pm|
|Heiko Recktenwald||Feb 21, 2001 2:42 am|
|Sue Blake||Feb 26, 2001 2:51 am|
|Subject:||RE: Hello from russia!|
|Date:||Feb 10, 2001 6:05:37 am|
On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
Mostly, but also to some of the posts in newbies that are basically people saying "don't post that here post it somewhere else" when referring to tech questions.
Yes, this happens a lot and people such as Rick and Sue are probably bloody tired of posting such responses. The rest of us are tired of reading them.
This sort of thing is pointless, there's no interest in renaming the list, people just need to shaaadddddup about it, and people are going to post tech questions in any venue, and people just need to shaaaaddddup about that too. Besides that I'd guess most people are subscribed to both lists and to those that are it's a sensless discussion since no matter where they post your going to see it.
IMO, I think there IS an interest in renaming this list and I feel it would go a long way towards fixing (not all) some of the problems. Sure, even if the name was changed to "FreeBSD-Dontasktechquestionshere", we'd still see a technical question pop up from time to time but that would be a lot better than the number of them that currently surface each day.
When I first decided to subscribe to this list, I had just installed FreeBSD 3.4 on a laptop and couldn't get the modem to work. I went to http://www.freebsd.org , clicked on the "Mailing lists" link and noticed the -newbies list. I thought, "I should subscribe to this list because I am a newbie and maybe there are other newbies in there that have fixed the same problem I'm wrestling with." After subscribing to the list and asking my question, I was politely told where to start looking for more information and to try asking questions on -questions. I could have saved myself and others, a lot of time if I would have known to post to -questions in the first place. I was also guilty of not taking the time to read the disclaimer that outlines the purpose of this list, when I first subscribed to it.
Private correction is needed and should be applied by anyone who has time, generally the more correction notices that the recipient gets the quicker they stop inappropriate posting, but this business of posting public "quit doing that here" is rediculous. All it does is trigger the kind of discussion that's going on in newbies now.
I think a name change would make the above practice somewhat obsolete, since most people wouldn't be inclined to ask technical questions here in the first place. It would be interesting to know how many people actually engage in private correction and I'm sure those that do, grow tired of it from time to time.
I've never been on a mailing list or newsgroup that didn't have a lot of trolling, baiting and the rest of it and I've done it myself a few times when the poster is particularly insane, just because after a while you get tired of seeing the same blandishments, and there's some folks that seem to thrive on being ignored, rather than the reverse. In any case discussing trolling is useless too, people get the idea of what it is after a few months anyway.
Agreed but it's still the job of the list moderator to discourage and address these kind of practices so they don't get out of control.
the majority of people who offer help on freebsd-questions. We are very lucky to have such capable volunteer supporters who are open to all kinds of questions. In any group of over a thousand people, you're bound to get an off reply occasionally. That experience can make it difficult to realise how good the majority are. Thanks Ted, and others.
I've personally always felt that with the exception of a little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know)
Yes, everyone seems to feel like that, except when they are newbies. Fortunately we have the freebsd-newbies list where newbies can engage in what you call metadiscussion without impinging on the other lists.
There's metadiscussion and metadiscussion. I try to avoid it and ignore it and generally don't pay much attention until it starts going down this well worn path again. With mailing lists you hear the same thing all the time "let's rename the list" with newsgroups the cry is always "let's split the newsgroup into 2 newsgroups" (BTW, metadiscussion is not my word, but it's not surprising you may not have heard of it before, as it's mainly used in newsgroup work)
Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this automatically once a month.
Actually, freebsd-newbies sends one out automatically once a week. So does freebsd-questions. People still ask for it
So I've heard but I wonder if the mechanism is broken, it's been a while since I've seen one.
It's not broken. It's sent out every Friday.
A while back, I asked if it could be sent out more often, thinking that it would be received/read by those who had just subscribed to the list and might keep them from asking technical questions. However, most people thought this was a ludicrous request and wouldn't help change things at all. I was just trying to throw some ideas out there but I agree now that it wasn't a good one. I should have stuck with my early gut feeling that a name change would be more helpful.
Instead of discussing why or why not a name change would help, why don't we just try it and see what happens? What is there to lose? If it helps and people stop posting as many tech questions as they do now, then everybody wins and I'll shaaaddddup. If it doesn't work, then everyone can email me with the famous "I told ya so!" and I'll shaaaddddup then too.
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majo...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message