atom feed48 messages in net.java.dev.jugs.jug-leaders[jug-leaders] Re: That's bad for JavaFx
FromSent OnAttachments
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 6, 2012 7:48 am 
Tobias FrechAug 6, 2012 8:28 am 
Marcos EliziarioAug 6, 2012 8:32 am 
Frank GrecoAug 6, 2012 8:37 am 
Marcos EliziarioAug 6, 2012 8:53 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 6, 2012 8:54 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 6, 2012 8:57 am 
John YearyAug 7, 2012 4:54 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 7, 2012 5:26 am 
Donald SmithAug 7, 2012 5:46 pm 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 8, 2012 12:28 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 12:37 am.png
Baptiste MATHUSAug 16, 2012 12:52 am 
Donald SmithAug 16, 2012 8:10 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 8:12 am 
Donald SmithAug 16, 2012 8:13 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 8:33 am 
Donald SmithAug 16, 2012 9:16 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 9:37 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 9:41 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 9:42 am 
Frank GrecoAug 16, 2012 9:45 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 9:53 am 
Bruno F. SouzaAug 16, 2012 9:58 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 10:25 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 10:26 am 
Donald SmithAug 16, 2012 10:46 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 1:06 pm 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 7:35 pm 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 16, 2012 9:49 pm 
Frans ThamuraAug 16, 2012 9:55 pm 
Baptiste MATHUSAug 16, 2012 10:06 pm 
Manfred MoserAug 16, 2012 10:39 pm 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 17, 2012 12:14 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 17, 2012 12:35 am 
Donald SmithAug 17, 2012 7:02 am 
Martijn VerburgAug 17, 2012 7:08 am 
Peter Van de VoordeAug 17, 2012 7:11 am 
John YearyAug 17, 2012 7:30 am 
Hildeberto MendonçaAug 17, 2012 7:41 am 
Joe Sam ShirahAug 17, 2012 7:59 am 
Milton SmithAug 17, 2012 9:08 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 17, 2012 9:29 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 17, 2012 9:42 am 
Tobias FrechAug 17, 2012 9:50 am 
Frans ThamuraAug 17, 2012 9:55 am 
John YearyAug 17, 2012 10:00 am 
Milton SmithAug 17, 2012 10:12 am 
Subject:[jug-leaders] Re: That's bad for JavaFx
From:Bruno F. Souza (bru@javaman.com.br)
Date:Aug 16, 2012 9:58:18 am
List:net.java.dev.jugs.jug-leaders

On 16/08/2012, at 13:43, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote:

Because I care! Do you?

I do. Keep pushing. We just got what may be a great victory for Digital TV in Brazil, because we kept pushing Oracle. Just a recent example. Keep up the great work Hildeberto, and keep pushing: it does create results!

On this subject in particular: Firefox suggests to disable several modules, I've seen this message for other things, and have never seen for Java so far (maybe because I do update :-)). The problem with making it a less urgent message is that people already tend to ignore those warnings... Would you rather having people disabling Java, or keeping their systems insecure and opening up the possibility of Java being exploited?

Yes, yes, I guess we would all agree that the best is neither, that we prefer Java to be updated :-) So, one thing we need to consider is the install and update of the Java VM in all systems going forward. This is not an easy nut to crack, and Jigsaw is our main hope right now... it is unfortunate that is has been delayed...

Bruno.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Frans Thamura <fra@meruvian.org> wrote: why wasting your time my friend ;)

i believe our role right now, only wait and see :)..

you cannot push, except you are larry, i believe larry also dunno what is java
still :)

F

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Hildeberto Mendonça <me@hildeberto.com> wrote: Donald,

That's easy for developers to undertand that. They are expert. I'm expert enough
to understand that. Maybe, developers are Oracle's target public and that's why
Oracle is blind and cannot see the problem.

The problem is with developer's target public = END-USERS!!!

When they see this message they will start thinking that "Java" is evil! The
general opinion is changing from "Java Everywhere" to "Java unstable and
insecure".

In my opinion, the correct approach to the problem would be to help the user to
upgrade its JRE version, but what is happening is that they are actually
DEACTIVATING JAVA because Firefox is telling them that Java is unstable and
insecure!

JavaFX is a nice technology, but if the approach to distribute JavaFX
applications is manually installing them in every single machine, then I don't
think it is a good choice anymore.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Donald Smith <dona@oracle.com> wrote: Do you not update your linux kernel regularly as vulnerabilities are patched?

- Don

On 16/08/2012 11:12 AM, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote:

OMG!!!! GUYS, WE ARE LOST! I GIVE UP! GOOD LUCK!

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Donald Smith <dona@oracle.com> wrote: WORKING AS INTENDED!!!

You're running 7u1 - it's old! There have been *two* CPU updates since then.
You need to update!

We are going to be working over the coming months on many ways to encourage
people to update to the most recent CPU updates.

Kudos to Mozilla for helping spread this message, I'm glad it's working!

- Don

On 16/08/2012 3:53 AM, Baptiste MATHUS wrote:

Well, +1.

I guess Oracle should try and work with Mozilla to prevent that kind of thing
happening. Mozilla deciding to advise thousands of users to not activate Java in firefox is
no good. Even more, saying to a lot of users that that "Java" thing is known to be
instable is really unfortunate, granted...

And sure, on a community side, we could also help Mozilla I guess.

Cheers

2012/8/16 Hildeberto Mendonça <me@hildeberto.com> Guys,

you may disagree with what the press and I are saying about Java SE, but you
cannot say anything when Firefox is directly asking users to disable Java due to
instability and security issues. I'm sending attached a screenshot I got this
morning. :(

This is a serious problem for the scalability of the distribution of Desktop
Java Applications, which is a serious threat to JavaFX's adoption.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Hildeberto Mendonça <me@hildeberto.com> wrote: That's great news! We are looking forward!

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Donald Smith <dona@oracle.com> wrote: I'm not sure if you noted my comment in a similar thread, but I was at the
quoted session and it was not at all as spun in the article.

That being said, we do have a new full time Java SE PM who just started with us
and will be focused on security. We'll be sure to introduce him very shortly to
this list once he figured out where we keep the office supplies and such.

- Don

On 07/08/2012 8:27 AM, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote:

Unfortunately, if we keep thinking like that, Java for Desktop is going to lose
more and more space. We need some
pragmatism in this case. I hope Oracle doesn't share the same opinion and I wish
we could launch an initiative to de-stigmatize the use of JRE, teaching people
to update it and helping Oracle to design a better update mechanism. :-(

Doesn't matter what the guy said in the article. We know the problem exist
because we already complained here about the update mechanism, several times if
I remember well.

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:54 PM, John Yeary <john@gmail.com> wrote: That article is pure FUD and does not contribute to anything except to point out
people should keep their software up to date.

____________________________

John Yeary

____________________________ NetBeans Dream Team President Greenville Java Users Group Java Users Groups Community Leader Java Enterprise Community Leader

____________________________

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though
checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither
enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows
not victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Hildeberto Mendonça <me@hildeberto.com> wrote: It's really easy for Microsoft to update .Net/Windows platform. In case of
security holes, they can enforce a security update very fast. JRE still cannot
do that so well.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Frank Greco <fgr@javasig.com> wrote: Java presents a security issue and .NET/Windows doesn't?

Its the usual FUD from the quickly sinking Microsoft ship. Its a poorly written
article. Just ignore it.

Frank G

On 8/6/12 10:49 AM, Hildeberto Mendonça wrote: That's really bad for JavaFX! :-( I would love to use this technology, but this
kind of thing is pushing me out
:-( Really sad.

http://www.infoworld.com/t/java-programming/microsoft-hits-java-where-it-hurts-198936

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Baptiste <Batmat> MATHUS - http://batmat.net Sauvez un arbre, Mangez un castor !

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

-- Hildeberto Mendonça, Ph.D Blog: http://www.hildeberto.com Community: http://www.cejug.org

Bruno.

______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe