32 messages in org.perl.cpan-testers-discussRe: The relation between CPAN Testers...
FromSent OnAttachments
David GoldenSep 3, 2008 2:09 pm 
Andrew MooreSep 3, 2008 2:28 pm 
David CantrellSep 4, 2008 6:39 am 
David CantrellSep 4, 2008 6:42 am 
David GoldenSep 4, 2008 7:28 am 
Gabor SzaboSep 4, 2008 7:35 am 
Greg Sabino MullaneSep 4, 2008 8:29 am 
Andy LesterSep 4, 2008 8:41 am 
chromaticSep 4, 2008 10:08 am 
Greg Sabino MullaneSep 4, 2008 11:19 am 
David GoldenSep 4, 2008 11:30 am 
Steffen SchwigonSep 4, 2008 11:42 am 
Andy LesterSep 4, 2008 11:52 am 
Andrew MooreSep 4, 2008 12:11 pm 
Andy LesterSep 4, 2008 12:21 pm 
Andrew MooreSep 4, 2008 12:29 pm 
BarbieSep 4, 2008 1:13 pm 
BramSep 4, 2008 1:13 pm 
David GoldenSep 4, 2008 1:56 pm 
Eric WilhelmSep 4, 2008 2:16 pm 
David E. WheelerSep 5, 2008 8:48 am 
David E. WheelerSep 5, 2008 9:07 am 
Andy LesterSep 5, 2008 9:13 am 
David E. WheelerSep 5, 2008 9:17 am 
chromaticSep 5, 2008 10:31 am 
David E. WheelerSep 5, 2008 11:22 am 
chromaticSep 5, 2008 11:35 am 
David E. WheelerSep 5, 2008 11:45 am 
Eric WilhelmSep 5, 2008 11:55 am 
Eric WilhelmSep 5, 2008 2:48 pm 
David GoldenSep 5, 2008 3:22 pm 
Eric WilhelmSep 5, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Subject:Re: The relation between CPAN Testers and quality (or why CPAN Testers sucks if you don't need it)Actions...
From:David E. Wheeler (dav@kineticode.com)
Date:Sep 5, 2008 8:48:13 am
List:org.perl.cpan-testers-discuss

On Sep 4, 2008, at 10:09, chromatic wrote:

My job is editor, not programmer. Also novelist -- but again, not programmer. Certainly not CPAN programmer.

What's your novel? Can I read it?

Paying attention is not my job. Releasing software I've written under a free and open license does not instill in me the obligation to jump whenever a user snaps his or her fingers.

Well, you can ignore the FAILs. Or you can evaluate each one to determine if you could change something your code to make it easier for your users. No one compels you to do anything.

I may do so because I take the quality and utility of my software seriously, but do not mistake that for anything which may instill in you any sort of entitlement. That is an excellent way not to get what you want from me.

I don't think anyone would argue that. Straw man, dude.

I don't like this: failure by any other name would smell just as bad. In other words, if an end user is not going to have a happy, functional module after typing install Foo::Bar at the CPAN prompt, this is a failure that should be noted as such and fixed by the author.

Then CPAN Testers reports should come with login instructions so that I can resurrect decade-old skills and perform system administration to fix broken installations and configurations -- oh, and as you say, a truly *modern* reporting system should publish these logins and passwords publicly in syndication feeds.

Huh? I don't think he's referring to configuration issues on the tester's box. Clearly that's not the author's responsibility. It's the job of CPAN Testers to try to minimize the FAIL reports for such a situation, but not your job to change anything when the occasional invalid FAIL gets through. That's not to say that CPAN Testers couldn't suggest a way for you as an author to cut down on those FAILs, but you're not compelled to do anything.

However, by what possible logic can you conclude that the appropriate way to get that bug fixed is to report it to people who, given all of the information detected automatically, *do not* maintain CPAN.pm?

Obviously it's not always easy to identify the source of the bug. It is the responsibility of CPAN Testers to run the most recent module in order to minimize such circumstances.

"Oh," perhaps you think, "it's easy for them to read the reports and diagnose the problem remotely on machines they have never seen before, did not configure, and cannot probe -- and it's so easy for them to file a bug in the right place!" If you don't think that, precisely what *do* you think to produce such a bold assertion that it is Shlomi's job to install and reconfigure a new version of CPAN.pm for a CPAN Tester -- or for that matter, everyone with a misconfigured version of CPAN.pm which contains this bug?

Straw man again. When I get such a report, I email the CPAN Tester and say, "WTF?" He usually gets back to me with, "My bad, sorry, won't happen again."

It's not my "job" to fix bugs in *my own* distributions. I do it because I care about quality and, contrary to what appears to be near- universal belief around here, I care that people can use my code.

Straw man again. Do you really believe anyone is actually saying that?

Best,

David