83 messages in org.w3.www-tagRe: draft findings on Unsafe Methods ...
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Dan ConnollyApr 15, 2002 8:50 am 
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Hutchison, NigelApr 16, 2002 9:43 am 
Henrik Frystyk NielsenApr 16, 2002 10:48 am 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 16, 2002 1:46 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 16, 2002 6:39 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 16, 2002 7:54 pm 
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Graham KlyneApr 18, 2002 9:11 am 
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Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 10:00 pm 
Graham KlyneApr 19, 2002 12:53 am 
Bill de hÓraApr 19, 2002 4:18 am 
Roy T. FieldingApr 19, 2002 1:20 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 22, 2002 3:23 pm 
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Paul PrescodApr 22, 2002 10:21 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 23, 2002 5:36 am 
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Roy T. FieldingApr 23, 2002 2:14 pm 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 2:53 pm 
David OrchardApr 23, 2002 4:14 pm 
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Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 11:20 pm 
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Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 7:23 am 
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Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am 
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Mike DierkenApr 24, 2002 12:06 pm 
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Roy T. FieldingMay 5, 2002 3:38 am 
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Subject:Re: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7)Actions...
From:Roy T. Fielding (fiel@apache.org)
Date:Apr 19, 2002 1:20:05 pm
List:org.w3.www-tag

I didn't bother to define "safe" in the HTTP spec because there already exist far more definitive works in software engineering literature that define the term completely. A search for Nancy Leveson's research will pick up the appropriate definition.

A quick search reveals work that seems to deal with safety related to fault tolerance. I had the idea that "safe" in HTTP was a slightly different idea. Could you please provide a more specific reference, or an extra keyword or two to locate the right kind of definition?

Sorry, sometimes I forget that I studied that stuff before the Web had escaped the boundaries of CERN. The reference is

Leveson, Nancy G. Software safety: why, what and how, ACM Computing Surveys, June 1986, pages 125-163. <http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/7474.7528>

`Safety here is regarded as a relative term. Although safety has been defined as "freedom from those conditions that can cause death, injury, occupational illness, or damage to or loss of equipment or property" [MIL-STD-882B 1984], it is generally recognized that this is unrealistic; by this definition any system that presents an element of risk is unsafe. ... Unfortunately, the question of "How safe is safe enough?" has no simple answer.'

HTTP does not attempt to require the results of a GET to be safe. What it does is require that the semantics of the operation be safe, and therefore it is a fault of the implementation, not the interface or the user of that interface, if anything happens as a result that causes loss of property (money, BTW, is considered property for the sake of this definition).

....Roy