| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| 213 earlier messages | ||
| Drummond Reed | Nov 10, 2008 7:59 am | |
| Giovanni Bartolomeo | Nov 10, 2008 9:04 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 10, 2008 9:13 am | |
| Giovanni Bartolomeo | Nov 10, 2008 10:01 am | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 10, 2008 11:04 am | |
| Barnhill, William [USA] | Nov 10, 2008 11:14 am | |
| Schleiff, Marty | Nov 10, 2008 11:27 am | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 10, 2008 11:35 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 10, 2008 10:48 pm | |
| Giovanni Bartolomeo | Nov 11, 2008 3:03 am | |
| Peter Davis | Nov 11, 2008 5:17 am | |
| Schleiff, Marty | Nov 11, 2008 7:36 am | |
| Schleiff, Marty | Nov 11, 2008 7:38 am | |
| Barnhill, William [USA] | Nov 11, 2008 7:42 am | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 11, 2008 9:03 am | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 11, 2008 9:21 am | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 11, 2008 10:00 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 12, 2008 11:13 pm | |
| Chasen, Les | Nov 13, 2008 8:14 am | |
| Peter Davis | Nov 13, 2008 8:16 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 14, 2008 9:19 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 16, 2008 11:18 pm | |
| Nat Sakimura | Nov 17, 2008 6:46 pm | |
| Gabe Wachob | Nov 17, 2008 6:59 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 18, 2008 11:57 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 19, 2008 4:46 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 20, 2008 12:29 am | |
| Nat Sakimura | Nov 20, 2008 2:36 am | |
| John Bradley | Nov 20, 2008 8:54 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 20, 2008 9:54 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 20, 2008 10:21 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 21, 2008 11:11 pm | |
| Gabe Wachob | Nov 21, 2008 11:28 pm | |
| Nat Sakimura | Nov 23, 2008 6:10 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 23, 2008 11:18 pm | |
| Peter Davis | Nov 24, 2008 6:06 am | |
| Eran Hammer-Lahav | Nov 24, 2008 9:11 am | |
| Gabe Wachob | Nov 24, 2008 10:16 am | |
| Robin Cover | Nov 24, 2008 10:39 am | |
| John Bradley | Nov 24, 2008 10:50 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 24, 2008 3:36 pm | |
| Eran Hammer-Lahav | Nov 24, 2008 3:48 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 24, 2008 4:02 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 24, 2008 4:08 pm | |
| Robin Cover | Nov 24, 2008 4:22 pm | |
| Robin Cover | Nov 24, 2008 4:41 pm | |
| Nat Sakimura | Nov 24, 2008 6:19 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 24, 2008 6:25 pm | |
| Robin Cover | Nov 24, 2008 6:40 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Nov 24, 2008 7:38 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 3, 2008 4:53 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 4, 2008 10:42 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 5, 2008 5:11 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 5, 2008 6:06 pm | |
| Ben Laurie | Dec 8, 2008 9:06 am | |
| Breno de Medeiros | Dec 8, 2008 9:10 am | |
| John Bradley | Dec 8, 2008 9:11 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 8, 2008 9:55 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 8, 2008 10:00 am | |
| Markus Sabadello | Dec 8, 2008 10:04 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 8, 2008 11:55 pm | |
| Ben Laurie | Dec 9, 2008 5:34 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 9, 2008 11:15 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 9, 2008 11:23 am | |
| Dirk Balfanz | Dec 9, 2008 2:15 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 9, 2008 3:25 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 9, 2008 11:37 pm | |
| Peter Davis | Dec 10, 2008 5:48 am | |
| John Bradley | Dec 10, 2008 8:40 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 10, 2008 3:15 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 11, 2008 4:22 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 17, 2008 6:12 pm | |
| Eran Hammer-Lahav | Dec 18, 2008 2:02 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Dec 26, 2008 5:22 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 5, 2009 6:57 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 6, 2009 9:12 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 7, 2009 5:46 pm | |
| Xiaodong Lee | Jan 7, 2009 6:00 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 7, 2009 6:07 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 9, 2009 12:37 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 11, 2009 7:16 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 11, 2009 10:34 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 12, 2009 4:54 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 12, 2009 9:42 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 13, 2009 11:18 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 13, 2009 1:37 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 13, 2009 2:03 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 13, 2009 5:48 pm | |
| Chasen, Les | Jan 13, 2009 10:46 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 15, 2009 1:58 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 16, 2009 6:05 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 19, 2009 11:14 am | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 21, 2009 11:06 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 26, 2009 6:33 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 27, 2009 5:58 pm | |
| Drummond Reed | Jan 27, 2009 9:59 pm | |
| Eran Hammer-Lahav | Jan 27, 2009 10:21 pm | |
| Peter Davis | Jan 28, 2009 5:42 am | |
| George Fletcher | Jan 28, 2009 8:08 am | |
| John Bradley | Jan 28, 2009 8:31 am | |
| 135 later messages | ||
| Subject: | RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Drummond Reed (drum...@cordance.net) | |
| Date: | Nov 24, 2008 7:38:47 pm | |
| List: | org.oasis-open.lists.xri | |
Thanks, Robin, that's very helpful. I'm happy punting it to the editors to take from here.
=Drummond
-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob...@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:41 PM To: Drummond Reed Cc: 'Robin Cover'; 'Eran Hammer-Lahav'; 'Gabe Wachob'; 'Nat Sakimura'; mary...@oasis-open.org; 'OASIS XRI TC'; saki...@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
Also, I note a trailing slash in the your example? Is it required? Recommended?
Slash is neither required nor recommended. Some people prefer the "slash" variant because it allows straightforward creation of derivative URIs using QNames with simple concatenation (action URIs, etc)
Any of the three common types is allowed, per NG:
"Any of the three common types of namespace names (URI references) are allowed: hash type, slash type, and simple (no-trailing-delimiter) type..." http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#threeTypes Allowed
The two candidates you supplied (http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/...) looked OK to me.
-rcc
Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: rob...@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Drummond Reed wrote:
Robin, thanks, I understand now that the older examples didn't include the explicit "/ns/" segment, but newer namespace URIs need to include it.
So it sounds like what we want for XRD is:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/1.0/
...or in the date form:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/2008/12/
Do I have these right?
Also, I note a trailing slash in the your example? Is it required? Recommended?
=Drummond
-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob...@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:42 PM To: Drummond Reed Cc: 'Eran Hammer-Lahav'; 'Robin Cover'; 'Gabe Wachob'; 'Nat Sakimura'; mary...@oasis-open.org; 'OASIS XRI TC'; saki...@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Drummond Reed wrote:
I'm thinking that "/ns/" in the template corresponds to "/xscoor/" in the instance example. [...] I'm thinking what the template meant we could use was:
No. Please see the text here:
http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#uri-NS- root http://docs.oasis-
open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCommentaryV08.html#
NS-pathElement
See the documentation for the new (Naming Guidelines -08) pattern with the explicit /ns/ element, and example:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
Per:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200811/msg00125.html
- Robin
-------------------------------
Eran, our messages crossed in the mail. +1, but see inline for one clarification.
-----Original Message----- From: Eran Hammer-Lahav [mailto:er...@hueniverse.com] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:49 PM To: Drummond Reed; Robin Cover; Gabe Wachob Cc: Nat Sakimura; mary...@oasis-open.org; OASIS XRI TC; saki...@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
The examples from Robin¹s link directly point to:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wscoor/2006/03
As a valid XML namespace. Perhaps missing the /ns/ component from the current template:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/<ShortName>/ns/<Versioned-NS-String>
I'm thinking that "/ns/" in the template corresponds to "/xscoor/" in the instance example.
But either way, dates are definitely permitted within OASIS
namespaces.
I
therefore suggest this is a the resolution of this thread:
1. Spec name is XRD 1.0 2. Drop version attribute 3. XML namespace: http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/2008/12 (if still allowed, otherwise) http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd-200812
I'm thinking what the template meant we could use was:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/2008/12
But I'm sure Mary McRae can help us finalize the format - the key concept is that we can use a date-based version identifier.
The actual date will be the month of the first draft.
+1
=Drummond
On 11/24/08 3:36 PM, "Drummond Reed" <drum...@cordance.net> wrote:
Robin, thanks for the guidance and links. I've suggested to Mary
(who
I
realize is gone this week) that we have a short telecon after she's back with all the editors who will be working on the next round of specs
from
the
XRI TC, as several are new to OASIS specs and editing requirements.
=Drummond
-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob...@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 10:40 AM To: Gabe Wachob Cc: Eran Hammer-Lahav; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; mary.mcrae@oasis- open.org; OASIS XRI TC; saki...@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
Just a recommendation:
I don't think it would be a mistake to keep one eye on details of the OASIS Naming Guidelines as the TC deliberates about such things as construction of a spec title, use of version/revision identifiers, namespace URI considerations, (required) use of both instance (version-specific) and generic (version-agnostic) URIs for schemas as well as prose specs, etc. And also, on the TC Process document.
Examples:
open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#NamespaceD
esign (includes 'change policies for XML namespaces')
http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#title
http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#version
http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#specURIs
open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#declaredNamespace
(namespace document, if you use HTTP scheme NS URI)
open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#latestVersionURIs
-schemas "Latest Version" URIs for Schemas, WSDLs, RDDLs, and Other Specification Components
TC Prosess 2.18 http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06- 19.php#specQuality
A specification may be composed of any number of files of different types, though any such multi-part specification must have a single specification name and version number. Irrespective of the number and status of the constituent parts, the specification as a whole must be approved by a single TC ballot. Any change made to a specification requires a new version or revision number...
[NB Mary is out of the office for this week]
-rcc
Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: rob...@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Gabe Wachob wrote:
I'd be happy with calling it XRD 1.0 if we use a dated namespace
so
people
don't have *any* confusion about the fact that this is the "most current" spec relative to XRI...
Its also a sort of emerging best practice for namespaces from the W3C, afaict.
And of course, I'm happy with an HTTP namespace ;)
I'm happy with dropping version - that was there mostly to allow backwards compatibility - the idea being that a future interpreter could
pick
up
an
older XML document and understand what it was looking at. This
would
leave us
as spec writers free to add new elements in a "backwards
compatible"
manner,
while allowing the documen to give hints to "up to date"
implementations
what
level the spec was at. The idea was that you would be able to rev
the
schema
much slower than the spec interpreting it.
-Gabe
On Nov 24, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav wrote:
My vote is to:
Name the spec XRD 1.0 Drop the ?version? attribute Drop the proposal to have multiple ?profiles? (i.e. XRDS-Simple) Use an HTTP namespace under the OASIS domain with version 1.0. If people find this confusing, I would be ok with a dated namespace. As a last resort, I would support using a version 3.0 namespace with an explanation why the spec itself is version 1.0.
Here is why:
I think the real question here is what to do with the ?version? attribute. In many ways, it is very similar to the ?profile? attribute proposed earlier to support the XRDS-Simple use case. I am ?1 on both and
here
is
why. My understanding of the ?version? attribute is that it
refers
only
to
the resolver workflow, not to the schema which is independently versioned via an XML namespace.
I cannot think of use cases where the schema does not change at
all,
but
the meaning of the document does. The most likely scenario to
happen
is
adding elements via XML namespace import, and in that case, the resolver will need to take those new additions into account (as they may
change
the
meaning of the document). I believe that the schema itself is
more
than
just a format but also tightly linked to its meaning. If we want
to
change
the meaning but not the schema, we should still change the XML namespace. Either way, existing parsers will need to change so why does it
matter
what
breaks them (different version of different namespace).
In addition, I have changed my views on the ?profile? attribute.
I
think at
this point the only element which might be considered ?advance?
is
<Ref>
and it is an important requirement for any delegation of
metadata.
The
only
other issue raised by developers was the ?priority? attribute but again, it is too important to remove.
If we remove these two attributes, we are left with a single
unified
schema
which will get a new namespace. Since this new namespace will be
an
HTTP
URI, I do not think it matters if it is version 1.0 or dated. It
will
be
sufficiently different form the XRI namespace (which more people didn?t understand) and from the version attribute value. Because of that
I
lean
more towards a version 1.0 in the namespace than a date, but will
take
a
date over version 3.0.
The spec itself should be XRD 1.0 either way, not matter what
namespace
we
end up using (and assuming we are dropping the ?version?
attribute).
It
is
better to version it 1.0 and put a comment why the namespace has
3.0
in
it,
than make everything 3.0...
EHL
On 11/23/08 11:18 PM, "Drummond Reed"
<drum...@cordance.net>
wrote:
Nat, RE your [Q1], I don't think OASIS mandates how schemas are versioned. That's up to individual TCs (I'm trusting Mary or Robin will
correct
me
if
I'm wrong.]
RE your [Q2], I think that it is also up to us when we make a version change. Changing the schema would seem to be one of the
conditions
under
which we would definitely make a version change, but it does seem like other spec changes could also trigger a version change (for example, as you mentioned, verification rules).
Suggestion: since much of this seems to hinge around whether the
XRD
schema
retains a version attribute, why don't selector see if we can
decide
that
first.
1) Who has strong feelings one way or another about whether the
XRD
schema
should have a version attribute?
2) If so, should the use of the version attribute be required?
3) If there is a version attribute, who has strong feeling about
it
being
numeric (as it currently is in XRI Resolution 2.0)? Or a date value?
=Drummond
-----Original Message----- From: Nat Sakimura [mailto:n-sa...@nri.co.jp] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:11 AM To: mary...@oasis-open.org; OASIS XRI TC Cc: Gabe Wachob; Drummond Reed; Eran Hammer-Lahav; saki...@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
So, to sum it up, there has been several information points/resonings available around versions:
(1) Since it is a new spec, it shoud start from 1.0. Otherwise people start looking for 1.0. (2) Since there is <XRD version="2.0"
xmlns="xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)">
in
XRDS right now. using 1.0 may confuse people. Perhaps we should use 3.0. (3) However, if version attribute goes away, this is of less concern. Version of the schema can be represented in xmlns, and it
will
be
a new http based version string possibly starting from 1.0 or
dates
in
W3C style. Besides, schema version and spec version can be separate. (4) OASIS rule mandates the specs to be versioned numerically.
I have a couple of questions at this point.
[Q1] Is the OASIS versioning rule on the spec also applicable to the schema contained in the spec? [Q2] Is there a case where we want to preserve "version" attribute separate from the schema version? e.g., when verification rule is changed etc., should it always require the schema version change as well?
If the answer to [Q1] is no, then we can use date based name
space
in
<XRD ... > and cause less confusion even if we adopt XRD 1.0. If the answer is "Yes",
then
I
would be more inclined to "3.0".
For [Q2], I am yet to come up with a case. If any of you could
think
of
it, please let me know.
=nat
Gabe Wachob wrote:
<mailto:drum...@cordance.net>>
wrote:
Mary McRae, our TC admin, clarified that OASIS specs must
use
a
numeric version identifier (see thread below).
So, mates, now we really do have to decide between "XRD
1.0"
and
"XRD 3.0".
A suggestion: if, as we discussed on Thursday's call, the
new
XRD
spec will no longer have a "ver" attribute on the XRD element, then the issue of the previous version attribute value being "2.0" (as specified
in
XRI
Resolution 2.0) will go away. In that case I think it makes sense to
call
the
spec "XRD 1.0" because as Eran pointed out, there's never been a spec from the TC called "XRD" before.
OTOH, if the decision is that the ver attribute on XRD element should stay, then I think it makes sense to call the spec "XRD 3.0"
because
it
really is the next version of XRD. We can always put a note in the frontmatter telling readers not to look for an "XRD 2.0" or "XRD 1.0" spec, but instead to look at "XRI Resolution 2.0" and "XRI 1.0" for the predecessor specifications.
All things being equal (which they never are ;-), I favor
planning
for
future growth and extensibility, which means I favor
keeping
the
versioning attribute, which tips me ever so slightly towards "XRD
3.0".
(Which
is
ironic because I prefer the spec name "XRD 1.0" because
it's
a
new
spec.)
I don't think the issue is worth taking a bunch of list bandwidth to figure out, so I'd recommend that:
a) Anyone else on the list with strong feelings either way, please post your thoughts by Monday.
b) Eran and Nat as the editors discuss it and make a recommendation.
=Drummond
-----Original Message----- From: Mary McRae [mailto:mary...@gmail.com <mailto:mary...@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Mary McRae Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:23 AM To: 'Drummond Reed' Subject: RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
You found the right (and required) answer ;-)
Mary
-----Original Message----- From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drum...@cordance.net <mailto:drum...@cordance.net>] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:22 AM To: 'OASIS XRI TC'; mary...@oasis-open.org <mailto:mary...@oasis-open.org> Subject: Version identifier for XRD spec
Mary,
From today's XRI TC call I had an action item to send you
and
the TC
list an email asking about OASIS spec naming guidelines. Based on
the
helpful
info about spec packaging you gave us two weeks ago, the TC is currently planning two new specs, both of which we intend to take to OASIS Standard level: XRI 3.0 and XRD xxx (xxx = version identifier TBD).
XRI 3.0 will consist of four parts (1: Syntax, 2:
Resolution,
3: http:
and https: Bindings, and 4: info: Binding). XRD will probably be
a
single
spec, though it might be two parts.
Now, the question is about versioning on the XRD spec. This
is
a new
spec that represents splitting off a significant portion of the content of the XRI Resolution 2.0 spec into a new spec that defines a
generic
metadata
discovery format and protocol which the new XRI 3.0 Part 2: Resolution spec will then profile (as will other specs, e.g. SAML, OpenID, OAuth, etc. who want to use interoperable discovery).
Our first question is: does an OASIS spec need to use a numeric version identifier? In researching this tonight, I believe the
answer
<http://open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata.html#ver>
sion
...which states:
******************* A specification Version is represented textually by a
numeric
string
composed of digits [0-9] and period (".") corresponding to
any
of the
following lexical models provided below (as examples), as may be relevant to the TC's work activity and preference for major/minor
version
notation.
Formally, using parenthesis to indicate optionality and "#" to represent a digit, the allowable pattern is: #(#).#(#)(.#(#)). Use of
any
other
pattern for version number must be negotiated with the TC Administration.
Examples:
1.0 #.# 1.01 #.## 1.2.1 #.#.# 10.1 ##.# ********************
If so, that answers the question, and we just need to decide what version number to give it (in short: one rationale is to call it 1.0 because it is a new spec; another is to call it 3.0 because it derives from two generations of XRDS before it -- but that's our issue to figure out).
However, if we do have any flexibility, we want to at least ask you about using a year/date identifier instead of a version number.
Thanks in advance. (BTW, I'm thinking of setting up a call
in
early
December between you and the editors of these new specs to a general Q&A about all things involved with the mechanics of an OASIS spec. Sound like a good idea?)
=Drummond
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