atom feed448 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.xriRE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for ...
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Drummond ReedNov 10, 2008 7:59 am 
Giovanni BartolomeoNov 10, 2008 9:04 am 
Drummond ReedNov 10, 2008 9:13 am 
Giovanni BartolomeoNov 10, 2008 10:01 am 
Chasen, LesNov 10, 2008 11:04 am 
Barnhill, William [USA]Nov 10, 2008 11:14 am 
Schleiff, MartyNov 10, 2008 11:27 am 
Chasen, LesNov 10, 2008 11:35 am 
Drummond ReedNov 10, 2008 10:48 pm 
Giovanni BartolomeoNov 11, 2008 3:03 am 
Peter DavisNov 11, 2008 5:17 am 
Schleiff, MartyNov 11, 2008 7:36 am 
Schleiff, MartyNov 11, 2008 7:38 am 
Barnhill, William [USA]Nov 11, 2008 7:42 am 
Chasen, LesNov 11, 2008 9:03 am 
Chasen, LesNov 11, 2008 9:21 am 
Chasen, LesNov 11, 2008 10:00 am 
Drummond ReedNov 12, 2008 11:13 pm 
Chasen, LesNov 13, 2008 8:14 am 
Peter DavisNov 13, 2008 8:16 am 
Drummond ReedNov 14, 2008 9:19 am 
Drummond ReedNov 16, 2008 11:18 pm 
Nat SakimuraNov 17, 2008 6:46 pm 
Gabe WachobNov 17, 2008 6:59 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 18, 2008 11:57 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 19, 2008 4:46 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 20, 2008 12:29 am 
Nat SakimuraNov 20, 2008 2:36 am 
John BradleyNov 20, 2008 8:54 am 
Drummond ReedNov 20, 2008 9:54 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 20, 2008 10:21 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 21, 2008 11:11 pm 
Gabe WachobNov 21, 2008 11:28 pm 
Nat SakimuraNov 23, 2008 6:10 am 
Drummond ReedNov 23, 2008 11:18 pm 
Peter DavisNov 24, 2008 6:06 am 
Eran Hammer-LahavNov 24, 2008 9:11 am 
Gabe WachobNov 24, 2008 10:16 am 
Robin CoverNov 24, 2008 10:39 am 
John BradleyNov 24, 2008 10:50 am 
Drummond ReedNov 24, 2008 3:36 pm 
Eran Hammer-LahavNov 24, 2008 3:48 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 24, 2008 4:02 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 24, 2008 4:08 pm 
Robin CoverNov 24, 2008 4:22 pm 
Robin CoverNov 24, 2008 4:41 pm 
Nat SakimuraNov 24, 2008 6:19 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 24, 2008 6:25 pm 
Robin CoverNov 24, 2008 6:40 pm 
Drummond ReedNov 24, 2008 7:38 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 3, 2008 4:53 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 4, 2008 10:42 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 5, 2008 5:11 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 5, 2008 6:06 pm 
Ben LaurieDec 8, 2008 9:06 am 
Breno de MedeirosDec 8, 2008 9:10 am 
John BradleyDec 8, 2008 9:11 am 
Drummond ReedDec 8, 2008 9:55 am 
Drummond ReedDec 8, 2008 10:00 am 
Markus SabadelloDec 8, 2008 10:04 am 
Drummond ReedDec 8, 2008 11:55 pm 
Ben LaurieDec 9, 2008 5:34 am 
Drummond ReedDec 9, 2008 11:15 am 
Drummond ReedDec 9, 2008 11:23 am 
Dirk BalfanzDec 9, 2008 2:15 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 9, 2008 3:25 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 9, 2008 11:37 pm 
Peter DavisDec 10, 2008 5:48 am 
John BradleyDec 10, 2008 8:40 am 
Drummond ReedDec 10, 2008 3:15 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 11, 2008 4:22 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 17, 2008 6:12 pm 
Eran Hammer-LahavDec 18, 2008 2:02 pm 
Drummond ReedDec 26, 2008 5:22 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 5, 2009 6:57 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 6, 2009 9:12 am 
Drummond ReedJan 7, 2009 5:46 pm 
Xiaodong LeeJan 7, 2009 6:00 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 7, 2009 6:07 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 9, 2009 12:37 am 
Drummond ReedJan 11, 2009 7:16 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 11, 2009 10:34 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 12, 2009 4:54 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 12, 2009 9:42 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 13, 2009 11:18 am 
Drummond ReedJan 13, 2009 1:37 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 13, 2009 2:03 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 13, 2009 5:48 pm 
Chasen, LesJan 13, 2009 10:46 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 15, 2009 1:58 am 
Drummond ReedJan 16, 2009 6:05 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 19, 2009 11:14 am 
Drummond ReedJan 21, 2009 11:06 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 26, 2009 6:33 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 27, 2009 5:58 pm 
Drummond ReedJan 27, 2009 9:59 pm 
Eran Hammer-LahavJan 27, 2009 10:21 pm 
Peter DavisJan 28, 2009 5:42 am 
George FletcherJan 28, 2009 8:08 am 
John BradleyJan 28, 2009 8:31 am 
135 later messages
Subject:RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
From:Drummond Reed (drum@cordance.net)
Date:Nov 24, 2008 7:38:47 pm
List:org.oasis-open.lists.xri

Thanks, Robin, that's very helpful. I'm happy punting it to the editors to take from here.

=Drummond

-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:41 PM To: Drummond Reed Cc: 'Robin Cover'; 'Eran Hammer-Lahav'; 'Gabe Wachob'; 'Nat Sakimura'; mary@oasis-open.org; 'OASIS XRI TC'; saki@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

Also, I note a trailing slash in the your example? Is it required? Recommended?

Slash is neither required nor recommended. Some people prefer the "slash" variant because it allows straightforward creation of derivative URIs using QNames with simple concatenation (action URIs, etc)

Any of the three common types is allowed, per NG:

"Any of the three common types of namespace names (URI references) are allowed: hash type, slash type, and simple (no-trailing-delimiter) type..." http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#threeTypes Allowed

The two candidates you supplied (http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/...) looked OK to me.

-rcc

Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: rob@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Drummond Reed wrote:

Robin, thanks, I understand now that the older examples didn't include the explicit "/ns/" segment, but newer namespace URIs need to include it.

So it sounds like what we want for XRD is:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/1.0/

...or in the date form:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/2008/12/

Do I have these right?

Also, I note a trailing slash in the your example? Is it required? Recommended?

=Drummond

-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:42 PM To: Drummond Reed Cc: 'Eran Hammer-Lahav'; 'Robin Cover'; 'Gabe Wachob'; 'Nat Sakimura'; mary@oasis-open.org; 'OASIS XRI TC'; saki@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Drummond Reed wrote:

I'm thinking that "/ns/" in the template corresponds to "/xscoor/" in the instance example. [...] I'm thinking what the template meant we could use was:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/2008/12

No. Please see the text here:

http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#uri-NS- root http://docs.oasis-

open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCommentaryV08.html#

NS-pathElement

See the documentation for the new (Naming Guidelines -08) pattern with the explicit /ns/ element, and example:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/

Per:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200811/msg00125.html

- Robin

-------------------------------

Eran, our messages crossed in the mail. +1, but see inline for one clarification.

-----Original Message----- From: Eran Hammer-Lahav [mailto:er@hueniverse.com] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:49 PM To: Drummond Reed; Robin Cover; Gabe Wachob Cc: Nat Sakimura; mary@oasis-open.org; OASIS XRI TC; saki@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

The examples from Robin¹s link directly point to:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wscoor/2006/03

As a valid XML namespace. Perhaps missing the /ns/ component from the current template:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/<ShortName>/ns/<Versioned-NS-String>

I'm thinking that "/ns/" in the template corresponds to "/xscoor/" in the instance example.

But either way, dates are definitely permitted within OASIS

namespaces.

I

therefore suggest this is a the resolution of this thread:

1. Spec name is XRD 1.0 2. Drop version attribute 3. XML namespace: http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd/2008/12 (if still allowed, otherwise) http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/ns/xrd-200812

I'm thinking what the template meant we could use was:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/2008/12

But I'm sure Mary McRae can help us finalize the format - the key concept is that we can use a date-based version identifier.

The actual date will be the month of the first draft.

+1

=Drummond

On 11/24/08 3:36 PM, "Drummond Reed" <drum@cordance.net> wrote:

Robin, thanks for the guidance and links. I've suggested to Mary

(who

I

realize is gone this week) that we have a short telecon after she's back with all the editors who will be working on the next round of specs

from

the

XRI TC, as several are new to OASIS specs and editing requirements.

=Drummond

-----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:rob@oasis-open.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 10:40 AM To: Gabe Wachob Cc: Eran Hammer-Lahav; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; mary.mcrae@oasis- open.org; OASIS XRI TC; saki@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

Just a recommendation:

I don't think it would be a mistake to keep one eye on details of the OASIS Naming Guidelines as the TC deliberates about such things as construction of a spec title, use of version/revision identifiers, namespace URI considerations, (required) use of both instance (version-specific) and generic (version-agnostic) URIs for schemas as well as prose specs, etc. And also, on the TC Process document.

Examples:

http://docs.oasis-

open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#NamespaceD

esign (includes 'change policies for XML namespaces')

http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#title

http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#version

http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#specURIs

http://docs.oasis-

open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#declaredNamespace

(namespace document, if you use HTTP scheme NS URI)

http://docs.oasis-

open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#latestVersionURIs

-schemas "Latest Version" URIs for Schemas, WSDLs, RDDLs, and Other Specification Components

TC Prosess 2.18 http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06- 19.php#specQuality

A specification may be composed of any number of files of different types, though any such multi-part specification must have a single specification name and version number. Irrespective of the number and status of the constituent parts, the specification as a whole must be approved by a single TC ballot. Any change made to a specification requires a new version or revision number...

[NB Mary is out of the office for this week]

-rcc

Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: rob@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Gabe Wachob wrote:

I'd be happy with calling it XRD 1.0 if we use a dated namespace

so

people

don't have *any* confusion about the fact that this is the "most current" spec relative to XRI...

Its also a sort of emerging best practice for namespaces from the W3C, afaict.

And of course, I'm happy with an HTTP namespace ;)

I'm happy with dropping version - that was there mostly to allow backwards compatibility - the idea being that a future interpreter could

pick

up

an

older XML document and understand what it was looking at. This

would

leave us

as spec writers free to add new elements in a "backwards

compatible"

manner,

while allowing the documen to give hints to "up to date"

implementations

what

level the spec was at. The idea was that you would be able to rev

the

schema

much slower than the spec interpreting it.

-Gabe

On Nov 24, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav wrote:

My vote is to:

Name the spec XRD 1.0 Drop the ?version? attribute Drop the proposal to have multiple ?profiles? (i.e. XRDS-Simple) Use an HTTP namespace under the OASIS domain with version 1.0. If people find this confusing, I would be ok with a dated namespace. As a last resort, I would support using a version 3.0 namespace with an explanation why the spec itself is version 1.0.

Here is why:

I think the real question here is what to do with the ?version? attribute. In many ways, it is very similar to the ?profile? attribute proposed earlier to support the XRDS-Simple use case. I am ?1 on both and

here

is

why. My understanding of the ?version? attribute is that it

refers

only

to

the resolver workflow, not to the schema which is independently versioned via an XML namespace.

I cannot think of use cases where the schema does not change at

all,

but

the meaning of the document does. The most likely scenario to

happen

is

adding elements via XML namespace import, and in that case, the resolver will need to take those new additions into account (as they may

change

the

meaning of the document). I believe that the schema itself is

more

than

just a format but also tightly linked to its meaning. If we want

to

change

the meaning but not the schema, we should still change the XML namespace. Either way, existing parsers will need to change so why does it

matter

what

breaks them (different version of different namespace).

In addition, I have changed my views on the ?profile? attribute.

I

think at

this point the only element which might be considered ?advance?

is

<Ref>

and it is an important requirement for any delegation of

metadata.

The

only

other issue raised by developers was the ?priority? attribute but again, it is too important to remove.

If we remove these two attributes, we are left with a single

unified

schema

which will get a new namespace. Since this new namespace will be

an

HTTP

URI, I do not think it matters if it is version 1.0 or dated. It

will

be

sufficiently different form the XRI namespace (which more people didn?t understand) and from the version attribute value. Because of that

I

lean

more towards a version 1.0 in the namespace than a date, but will

take

a

date over version 3.0.

The spec itself should be XRD 1.0 either way, not matter what

namespace

we

end up using (and assuming we are dropping the ?version?

attribute).

It

is

better to version it 1.0 and put a comment why the namespace has

3.0

in

it,

than make everything 3.0...

EHL

On 11/23/08 11:18 PM, "Drummond Reed"

<drum@cordance.net>

wrote:

Nat, RE your [Q1], I don't think OASIS mandates how schemas are versioned. That's up to individual TCs (I'm trusting Mary or Robin will

correct

me

if

I'm wrong.]

RE your [Q2], I think that it is also up to us when we make a version change. Changing the schema would seem to be one of the

conditions

under

which we would definitely make a version change, but it does seem like other spec changes could also trigger a version change (for example, as you mentioned, verification rules).

Suggestion: since much of this seems to hinge around whether the

XRD

schema

retains a version attribute, why don't selector see if we can

decide

that

first.

1) Who has strong feelings one way or another about whether the

XRD

schema

should have a version attribute?

2) If so, should the use of the version attribute be required?

3) If there is a version attribute, who has strong feeling about

it

being

numeric (as it currently is in XRI Resolution 2.0)? Or a date value?

=Drummond

-----Original Message----- From: Nat Sakimura [mailto:n-sa@nri.co.jp] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:11 AM To: mary@oasis-open.org; OASIS XRI TC Cc: Gabe Wachob; Drummond Reed; Eran Hammer-Lahav; saki@spmd.nri.co.jp Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

So, to sum it up, there has been several information points/resonings available around versions:

(1) Since it is a new spec, it shoud start from 1.0. Otherwise people start looking for 1.0. (2) Since there is <XRD version="2.0"

xmlns="xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)">

in

XRDS right now. using 1.0 may confuse people. Perhaps we should use 3.0. (3) However, if version attribute goes away, this is of less concern. Version of the schema can be represented in xmlns, and it

will

be

a new http based version string possibly starting from 1.0 or

dates

in

W3C style. Besides, schema version and spec version can be separate. (4) OASIS rule mandates the specs to be versioned numerically.

I have a couple of questions at this point.

[Q1] Is the OASIS versioning rule on the spec also applicable to the schema contained in the spec? [Q2] Is there a case where we want to preserve "version" attribute separate from the schema version? e.g., when verification rule is changed etc., should it always require the schema version change as well?

If the answer to [Q1] is no, then we can use date based name

space

in

<XRD ... > and cause less confusion even if we adopt XRD 1.0. If the answer is "Yes",

then

I

would be more inclined to "3.0".

For [Q2], I am yet to come up with a case. If any of you could

think

of

it, please let me know.

=nat

Gabe Wachob wrote:

Lets call it XRD 7!

-Gabe

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Drummond Reed <drum@cordance.net

<mailto:drum@cordance.net>>

wrote:

Mary McRae, our TC admin, clarified that OASIS specs must

use

a

numeric version identifier (see thread below).

So, mates, now we really do have to decide between "XRD

1.0"

and

"XRD 3.0".

A suggestion: if, as we discussed on Thursday's call, the

new

XRD

spec will no longer have a "ver" attribute on the XRD element, then the issue of the previous version attribute value being "2.0" (as specified

in

XRI

Resolution 2.0) will go away. In that case I think it makes sense to

call

the

spec "XRD 1.0" because as Eran pointed out, there's never been a spec from the TC called "XRD" before.

OTOH, if the decision is that the ver attribute on XRD element should stay, then I think it makes sense to call the spec "XRD 3.0"

because

it

really is the next version of XRD. We can always put a note in the frontmatter telling readers not to look for an "XRD 2.0" or "XRD 1.0" spec, but instead to look at "XRI Resolution 2.0" and "XRI 1.0" for the predecessor specifications.

All things being equal (which they never are ;-), I favor

planning

for

future growth and extensibility, which means I favor

keeping

the

versioning attribute, which tips me ever so slightly towards "XRD

3.0".

(Which

is

ironic because I prefer the spec name "XRD 1.0" because

it's

a

new

spec.)

I don't think the issue is worth taking a bunch of list bandwidth to figure out, so I'd recommend that:

a) Anyone else on the list with strong feelings either way, please post your thoughts by Monday.

b) Eran and Nat as the editors discuss it and make a recommendation.

=Drummond

-----Original Message----- From: Mary McRae [mailto:mary@gmail.com <mailto:mary@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Mary McRae Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:23 AM To: 'Drummond Reed' Subject: RE: Version identifier for XRD spec

You found the right (and required) answer ;-)

-----Original Message----- From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drum@cordance.net <mailto:drum@cordance.net>] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:22 AM To: 'OASIS XRI TC'; mary@oasis-open.org <mailto:mary@oasis-open.org> Subject: Version identifier for XRD spec

Mary,

From today's XRI TC call I had an action item to send you

and

the TC

list an email asking about OASIS spec naming guidelines. Based on

the

helpful

info about spec packaging you gave us two weeks ago, the TC is currently planning two new specs, both of which we intend to take to OASIS Standard level: XRI 3.0 and XRD xxx (xxx = version identifier TBD).

XRI 3.0 will consist of four parts (1: Syntax, 2:

Resolution,

3: http:

and https: Bindings, and 4: info: Binding). XRD will probably be

a

single

spec, though it might be two parts.

Now, the question is about versioning on the XRD spec. This

is

a new

spec that represents splitting off a significant portion of the content of the XRI Resolution 2.0 spec into a new spec that defines a

generic

metadata

discovery format and protocol which the new XRI 3.0 Part 2: Resolution spec will then profile (as will other specs, e.g. SAML, OpenID, OAuth, etc. who want to use interoperable discovery).

Our first question is: does an OASIS spec need to use a numeric version identifier? In researching this tonight, I believe the

answer

is at:

http://docs.oasis- open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata.html#ver

<http://open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata.html#ver>

sion

...which states:

******************* A specification Version is represented textually by a

numeric

string

composed of digits [0-9] and period (".") corresponding to

any

of the

following lexical models provided below (as examples), as may be relevant to the TC's work activity and preference for major/minor

version

notation.

Formally, using parenthesis to indicate optionality and "#" to represent a digit, the allowable pattern is: #(#).#(#)(.#(#)). Use of

any

other

pattern for version number must be negotiated with the TC Administration.

Examples:

1.0 #.# 1.01 #.## 1.2.1 #.#.# 10.1 ##.# ********************

If so, that answers the question, and we just need to decide what version number to give it (in short: one rationale is to call it 1.0 because it is a new spec; another is to call it 3.0 because it derives from two generations of XRDS before it -- but that's our issue to figure out).

However, if we do have any flexibility, we want to at least ask you about using a year/date identifier instead of a version number.

Thanks in advance. (BTW, I'm thinking of setting up a call

in

early

December between you and the editors of these new specs to a general Q&A about all things involved with the mechanics of an OASIS spec. Sound like a good idea?)

=Drummond

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