|5 earlier messages|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 5, 2002 5:37 pm|
|Peter Donald||Nov 5, 2002 6:25 pm|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 5, 2002 7:33 pm|
|Aaron Bannert||Nov 5, 2002 9:27 pm|
|Aaron Bannert||Nov 5, 2002 9:30 pm|
|Ted Husted||Nov 6, 2002 5:15 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 6, 2002 6:55 pm|
|Daniel Rall||Nov 6, 2002 10:12 pm|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 7, 2002 3:43 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 7, 2002 4:11 am|
|Ted Husted||Nov 7, 2002 4:31 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 7, 2002 5:33 am|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 7, 2002 8:01 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 7, 2002 9:27 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 7, 2002 12:39 pm|
|Rich Bowen||Nov 8, 2002 4:36 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 8, 2002 9:06 am|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 8, 2002 1:50 pm|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 8, 2002 2:05 pm|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 8, 2002 2:46 pm|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 8, 2002 3:11 pm|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 8, 2002 3:48 pm|
|Craig R. McClanahan||Nov 8, 2002 4:02 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 8, 2002 4:57 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 8, 2002 5:03 pm|
|Martin van den Bemt||Nov 8, 2002 5:14 pm|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 8, 2002 5:48 pm|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 8, 2002 5:51 pm|
|James Taylor||Nov 8, 2002 5:56 pm|
|Craig R. McClanahan||Nov 8, 2002 5:58 pm|
|Craig R. McClanahan||Nov 8, 2002 6:05 pm|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 8, 2002 6:17 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 8, 2002 6:38 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 8, 2002 6:40 pm|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 9, 2002 12:29 am|
|Jeff Turner||Nov 9, 2002 2:44 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 3:27 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 4:13 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 4:25 am|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 9, 2002 4:27 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 4:31 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 4:35 am|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 9, 2002 4:36 am|
|Danny Angus||Nov 9, 2002 4:39 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 4:50 am|
|Martin van den Bemt||Nov 9, 2002 5:21 am|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 9, 2002 6:28 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 9, 2002 8:50 am|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 9, 2002 9:29 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 9, 2002 10:23 am|
|52 later messages|
|Subject:||DOH! Re: Rules for Revolutionaries|
|From:||Andrew C. Oliver (acol...@apache.org)|
|Date:||Nov 8, 2002 5:03:07 pm|
Well this makes my second mail faux pax this week. I actually didn't mean to send this. I sometimes type a mail and then discard it or send it to my self.. U/F in mozilla mail (which I'm not accustomed to) send is right below the file menu and I missed. (new laptop). My sincere appologies to Craig and the rest of y'all. I meant to send a way less snide/sarcastic version of this...
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
A slightly more formal way to do this would be to explicitly canonicalize "Apache Way" policies like this at the apache.org level, and these automatically become the default policies for any Apache project unless that project deliberately (perhaps within some limits TBD) chooses to operate differently. The requirement for following these (or specializing them) would be an explicit part of a new project's charter.
yes. Canons are way more efficient than trust and community building. I mean a tight nit group of people whom respect each other and want to work together is NO match for a group of people who don't respect each other and barely want to work together with a set of canon laws. (or should their be three n's in that)
Essentially, this would be a generlization of the way Jakarta projects deal with coding style conventions -- there's a default (from the original Sun coding standards) that is the assumed standard unless a different choice is explicitly made and documented for a particular subproject.
Yes, bracket placement is the most important issue in a community. If you don't use K&R style bracketing I just can't read your code and the project is a total wash. ;-) Fortunately Eclipse lets me reformat it going in and reformat it going out.
The same principle can be applied recursively -- instead of subclasses formally inheriting methods and instance variables (with the option to override), projects and subprojects formally inherit culture and standards unless they explicitly choose to override :-).
Yes "standards" have worked so nicely in the software industry. Why we have several standards for any one thing. Its certainly better than mutual respect.. For as long as one follows one of the standards, it must be good.
I'd bet many people perceive that Apache actually works this way; let's just make that perception into reality.
In order to do this, lets set at least 6 months aside each to draft a large legal document, assign penalties for breaking any of the rules. We'll create a new subproject for "Those who have not joined the shining path to enlightenment" for projects choosing not to ratify the canon. Next we can create a "interperator" subproject, in the event of a disagreement among parties in a project the interperator (think of them as lawyers) can be assigned to help interperate the canon and apply penalities to whomever is judged to be in the wrong. The alternative is to get back the the basics...community, mutual respect, dare I say friendship, working for the best ideas, etc. Rigid guidelines are much easier than that. Thats why XP is such crap, a "metaphor" instead of a BUFD. Same prinicipal. Long live the SDLC!