atom feed14 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.search-ws-commentRE: [search-ws-comment] "Last Week" i...
FromSent OnAttachments
LeVan,RalphOct 25, 2010 7:01 am 
Edo PlantingaOct 25, 2010 7:12 am 
LeVan,RalphOct 25, 2010 7:27 am 
Edward C. ZimmermannOct 25, 2010 8:19 am 
Ray Denenberg, Library of CongressOct 25, 2010 3:43 pm 
LeVan,RalphOct 25, 2010 6:04 pm 
Edward C. ZimmermannOct 26, 2010 1:08 am 
Edo PlantingaOct 26, 2010 1:44 am 
Ray Denenberg, Library of CongressOct 26, 2010 6:50 am 
Ray Denenberg, Library of CongressOct 26, 2010 6:50 am 
Edward C. ZimmermannOct 26, 2010 11:54 pm 
LeVan,RalphOct 27, 2010 10:36 am 
Nicola FerroNov 3, 2010 11:48 am 
Ray Denenberg, Library of CongressDec 2, 2010 9:04 am 
Subject:RE: [search-ws-comment] "Last Week" is a bad idea for <actualValue>
From:Edward C. Zimmermann (ed@nonmonotonic.net)
Date:Oct 25, 2010 8:19:02 am
List:org.oasis-open.lists.search-ws-comment

Right.. we have in the big picture more than just date ranges and trying to
provide a mechanism for clients to "understand" them is complicated--- and few
will ever bother--- if not impossible.... but also delivers little. For general
facet search we need shared sematics for things anyway to make sense.. If a user
at a clothing shop selects "hose"--- a word that means pants in German--- they
want the items that are pants and not fire hoses--- the "Fire Hose" gag from
Bill Dana in his guise as Jose Jimenez comes to mind. The anything goes model does not mean that one can't return (or handle) ISO
defined date ranges if one wishes.. All we have done is say that what  the
server provides in a scan or for a facet it must understand and do what it
intended when it supplied them. This is, I think, already a step above the
supply a term "exactly as its in the index" without a explicit contract to do
(or be able to do) something meaningful (from the perspective of the server)
with them. And remember.. Date ranges are not the only business case for this approach..
Sure.. if all you have are full text terns, dates, date ranges, numbers and
number ranges one might be able to devise something but once we start getting
into the realm of more obscure data types and ranges things get weird.. Do we
really want to start to talk about masking etc.. ISBN ranges anyone? Closed
paths..

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:13:14 +0200, Edo Plantinga wrote

We *don't* have client-defined range facets, therefore the developer cannot
figure out how to create such a query anyway. Your argument does not hold true
for server-defined facets. To put it another way: there will be no sending of
strings that have not been sent first by the *server*, and therefore there will
be no "url hacking" or "query hacking".

----------------------------------------------------------------------- Van: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:lev@oclc.org]

Verzonden: maandag 25 oktober 2010 16:02 Aan: sear@lists.oasis-open.org Onderwerp: [search-ws-comment] "Last Week" is a bad idea for <actualValue>

I’ve been giving more thought to our facets conversation and have decided that I
don’t like “Last Week” as a term to be sent back to the server. I’m not saying
it is illegal or that the standard won’t support it. I’m just saying I think it
is a bad idea.

The reason is that it depends on server magic. The client, or more importantly
the developer, won’t learn anything about how to construct other range queries
if we hide how it is done behind magic strings. If, instead, we send “20101017
20101023” as the <actualTerm>, then the developer might be able to figure out
how to create their own query for “Two Weeks Ago”.

Of course, an <actualTerm> of “20101017 20101023” would want a <displayTerm> of
“Last Week”.

RalphThat's actually evil since that DisplayTerm is volatile while the
actualTerm is persistent..  By the time the query is sent off it might not be
"Last Week" but "2 weeks past"..