168 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRe: [PHP-DEV] RIP PHP 4?
FromSent OnAttachments
63 earlier messages
Andi GutmansJul 7, 2007 9:01 am 
Stefan PriebschJul 7, 2007 9:14 am 
Larry GarfieldJul 7, 2007 12:11 pm 
Stanislav MalyshevJul 8, 2007 2:22 am 
Derick RethansJul 8, 2007 2:45 am 
Alain WilliamsJul 8, 2007 7:14 am 
Lukas Kahwe SmithJul 8, 2007 7:34 am 
Keryx WebJul 8, 2007 11:09 am 
Rasmus LerdorfJul 8, 2007 1:05 pm 
Tomas KuliavasJul 8, 2007 1:25 pm 
David CoallierJul 8, 2007 2:20 pm 
Andi GutmansJul 8, 2007 4:03 pm 
TijnemaJul 8, 2007 4:28 pm 
Larry GarfieldJul 8, 2007 5:06 pm 
Andi GutmansJul 8, 2007 8:49 pm 
PierreJul 8, 2007 10:28 pm 
Cristian RodriguezJul 8, 2007 11:29 pm 
Richard LynchJul 8, 2007 11:40 pm 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 12:21 am 
PierreJul 9, 2007 12:37 am 
bootsJul 9, 2007 12:51 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 12:53 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 1:01 am 
Derick RethansJul 9, 2007 1:25 am.txt
chris#Jul 9, 2007 1:37 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 1:38 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 2:05 am 
Alexey ZakhlestinJul 9, 2007 2:11 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 2:22 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 2:35 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 2:40 am 
Alain WilliamsJul 9, 2007 2:46 am 
PierreJul 9, 2007 2:47 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 2:49 am 
Derick RethansJul 9, 2007 2:56 am 
Daniel JäneckeJul 9, 2007 2:58 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 3:02 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 3:03 am 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 3:15 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 3:40 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 3:43 am 
Alain WilliamsJul 9, 2007 3:47 am 
MarcoJul 9, 2007 4:10 am 
Alain WilliamsJul 9, 2007 4:51 am 
Peter BrodersenJul 9, 2007 9:23 pm 
Larry GarfieldJul 9, 2007 10:45 pm 
Larry GarfieldJul 9, 2007 10:52 pm 
Larry GarfieldJul 9, 2007 10:55 pm 
chris#Jul 9, 2007 11:59 pm 
chris#Jul 10, 2007 12:27 am 
Derick RethansJul 10, 2007 12:33 am 
chris#Jul 10, 2007 1:09 am 
Alain WilliamsJul 10, 2007 1:28 am 
MarcoJul 10, 2007 6:18 am 
Andi GutmansJul 10, 2007 9:24 am 
Larry GarfieldJul 10, 2007 5:30 pm 
chris#Jul 10, 2007 6:50 pm 
PierreJul 11, 2007 1:10 am 
Derick RethansJul 11, 2007 1:15 am 
MarcoJul 11, 2007 1:34 am 
Sebastian MendelJul 11, 2007 5:05 am 
StutJul 11, 2007 6:03 am 
Lukas Kahwe SmithJul 11, 2007 6:06 am 
David CoallierJul 11, 2007 6:10 am 
Lukas Kahwe SmithJul 11, 2007 6:15 am 
Derick RethansJul 11, 2007 6:17 am 
Sebastian MendelJul 11, 2007 6:24 am 
Jeff GriffithsJul 11, 2007 1:12 pm 
chris#Jul 11, 2007 2:00 pm 
chris#Jul 11, 2007 2:30 pm 
TijnemaJul 11, 2007 2:40 pm 
Jeff GriffithsJul 11, 2007 4:04 pm 
TijnemaJul 11, 2007 4:22 pm 
Johannes SchlüterJul 11, 2007 5:30 pm 
Richard LynchJul 11, 2007 5:41 pm 
Jeff GriffithsJul 11, 2007 5:48 pm 
Richard LynchJul 11, 2007 5:53 pm 
David CoallierJul 11, 2007 6:17 pm 
Robert CummingsJul 11, 2007 6:27 pm 
Larry GarfieldJul 11, 2007 9:28 pm 
Lester CaineJul 11, 2007 11:12 pm 
Sebastian MendelJul 12, 2007 12:13 am 
chris#Jul 12, 2007 1:49 am 
Sebastian MendelJul 12, 2007 2:04 am 
TijnemaJul 12, 2007 2:51 am 
Jani TaskinenJul 12, 2007 2:55 am 
TijnemaJul 12, 2007 3:07 am 
chris#Jul 12, 2007 3:27 am 
chris#Jul 12, 2007 3:34 am 
Lester CaineJul 12, 2007 3:51 am 
MarcoJul 12, 2007 3:58 am 
chris#Jul 12, 2007 4:23 am 
Larry GarfieldJul 12, 2007 7:27 am 
MarcoJul 12, 2007 7:53 am 
Jeff GriffithsJul 12, 2007 8:08 am 
David CoallierJul 12, 2007 8:18 am 
TijnemaJul 12, 2007 9:11 am 
TijnemaJul 12, 2007 9:21 am 
Sebastian MendelJul 13, 2007 2:43 am 
chris#Jul 13, 2007 3:13 am 
5 later messages
Actions with this message:
Paste this link in email or IM:
Paste this link in email or IM:
Atom feed for this thread
Paste this URL into your reader:
Subject:Re: [PHP-DEV] RIP PHP 4?Actions...
From:chris# (chr@codewarehouse.NET)
Date:Jul 10, 2007 12:27:22 am
List:net.php.lists.internals

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:56:16 -0500, Larry Garfield <lar@garfieldtech.com>
wrote:

On Monday 09 July 2007, chris# wrote:

I will venture to say that the biggest issue was; no transition period. That is to say that PHP4 and PHP5 are two completely different creatures. There was no "morphing" period. After several years of working with PHP3/4 in this fashion, /suddenly/ most of those rules no longer applied (in PHP5). You've got millions - perhaps billions of lines of code that have to be nearly completely rewritten to be usable in PHP5. Perhaps a better solution would be to document an answer to running PHP4, PHP5, and PHP6 on the same boxen for the most popular OS's. Then there would be little reason for anyone not to adopt any version(s) of their choosing, and little reason to complain about an EOL. Seems a sure answer to me.

Better docs on how to run PHP 4 and PHP 5 at the same time would likely be helpful, and someone is working on that for GoPHP5.org, I think. However, your claim that "you have millions... of lines of code that have to be nearly completely rewritten to be usable in PHP 5" is not true. Sure, you could completely rewrite your app, but unless you're doing something very very dependent on objects passing by value porting a PHP 4 app to run correctly in PHP 5 is not the herculean task that some make it out to be. You don't /have/ to rewrite everything to use objects. Even the procedural code is easier, with the extra array manipulation routines. :-)

That sounds like more of a marketing issue.

Greetings, and thanks for the response. For the sake of clarity; I was /not/ indicating that /I/ had millions of lines
of code to /completely/ rewrite. But rather that there /are/ millions (perhaps
billions) of lines of code that need to be rewritten on the Internet in various
applications/ libraries/classes, etc... And for many, this seems quite - as you put it, the herculean task. Remember,
most ppl using PHP on their pages depend on others to write their pages/applications/ utilities. They go to sourceforge/freshmeat/phpclasses/hotscripts download
something that appeals to them and discover that it don't werk on the PHP5 boxen their
ISP/ hosting provider offers. So they discover they need to fix it to make it work.
To most - whom know very little about programming in PHP, this is quite a feat. So
as most in the world; they take the least-line-of-resistance and find a PHP4
hosting provider. Bottom line; there are zillions of PHP thingies out there that were
all written for PHP4 - far more than are available for 5. So until many (most?) of
them have been re-written (more accurately; adapted) for PHP5, PHP4 will still be a
/big/ contender - like it or not. OH, before I forget to respond; PHP5 is a completely different animal than PHP4 for the average user. Sure. If you were familiar with Java/Script it all looks quite familiar - technically any OO language for that matter. Hell, I've been with PHP since it's creation, coming from years with
perl and converting most of my trusty scripts to PHP. I also discovered many ways to write PHP4 as pseudo OO. Like many I suppose. Anyway, speaking of the past; I remember there being quite bit of resistance to the OO flavor that PHP5 offered. Perhaps it lingers still. Well, here's looking forward to feasible solutions to offering multiversions on most PHP hosters. ;)

Thanks again for the response.

-- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 lar@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

///////////////////////////////////////////////////// Service provided by hitOmeter.NET internet messaging! .