107 messages in org.apache.communityRE: DOH! Re: Rules for Revolutionaries| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 04 Nov 2002 11:08 | |
| Vadim Gritsenko | 04 Nov 2002 12:47 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 04 Nov 2002 13:10 | |
| John Keyes | 04 Nov 2002 15:25 | |
| Sam Ruby | 04 Nov 2002 16:33 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 05 Nov 2002 17:37 | |
| Peter Donald | 05 Nov 2002 18:25 | |
| Costin Manolache | 05 Nov 2002 19:33 | |
| Aaron Bannert | 05 Nov 2002 21:27 | |
| Aaron Bannert | 05 Nov 2002 21:30 | |
| Ted Husted | 06 Nov 2002 05:15 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 06 Nov 2002 18:55 | |
| Daniel Rall | 06 Nov 2002 22:12 | |
| Sam Ruby | 07 Nov 2002 03:43 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 07 Nov 2002 04:11 | |
| Ted Husted | 07 Nov 2002 04:31 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 07 Nov 2002 05:33 | |
| Sam Ruby | 07 Nov 2002 08:01 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 07 Nov 2002 09:27 | |
| Costin Manolache | 07 Nov 2002 12:39 | |
| Rich Bowen | 08 Nov 2002 04:36 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 08 Nov 2002 09:06 | |
| Sam Ruby | 08 Nov 2002 13:50 | |
| Costin Manolache | 08 Nov 2002 14:05 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 08 Nov 2002 14:46 | |
| Costin Manolache | 08 Nov 2002 15:11 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 08 Nov 2002 15:48 | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | 08 Nov 2002 16:02 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 08 Nov 2002 16:57 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 08 Nov 2002 17:03 | |
| Martin van den Bemt | 08 Nov 2002 17:14 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 08 Nov 2002 17:48 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 08 Nov 2002 17:51 | |
| James Taylor | 08 Nov 2002 17:56 | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | 08 Nov 2002 17:58 | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | 08 Nov 2002 18:05 | |
| Sam Ruby | 08 Nov 2002 18:17 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 08 Nov 2002 18:38 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 08 Nov 2002 18:40 | |
| Ceki Gülcü | 09 Nov 2002 00:29 | |
| Jeff Turner | 09 Nov 2002 02:44 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 03:27 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 04:13 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 04:25 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 09 Nov 2002 04:27 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 04:31 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 04:35 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 09 Nov 2002 04:36 | |
| Danny Angus | 09 Nov 2002 04:39 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 04:50 | |
| Martin van den Bemt | 09 Nov 2002 05:21 | |
| Ceki Gülcü | 09 Nov 2002 06:28 | |
| Costin Manolache | 09 Nov 2002 08:50 | |
| Sam Ruby | 09 Nov 2002 09:29 | |
| Costin Manolache | 09 Nov 2002 10:23 | |
| Ceki Gülcü | 09 Nov 2002 10:49 | |
| Ceki Gülcü | 09 Nov 2002 10:58 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 09 Nov 2002 12:33 | |
| James Duncan Davidson | 09 Nov 2002 15:29 | |
| James Duncan Davidson | 09 Nov 2002 15:37 | |
| Chuck Murcko | 09 Nov 2002 18:08 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 10 Nov 2002 05:29 | |
| Ceki Gülcü | 10 Nov 2002 06:22 | |
| James Duncan Davidson | 10 Nov 2002 09:14 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 11 Nov 2002 19:05 | |
| Stephen McConnell | 11 Nov 2002 19:26 | |
| Sam Ruby | 11 Nov 2002 19:41 | |
| Jeff Turner | 11 Nov 2002 19:43 | |
| Stephen McConnell | 11 Nov 2002 19:43 | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | 11 Nov 2002 21:34 | |
| Ovidiu Predescu | 11 Nov 2002 21:36 | |
| Sam Ruby | 11 Nov 2002 21:51 | |
| Jeff Turner | 11 Nov 2002 23:18 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 12 Nov 2002 07:18 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 12 Nov 2002 07:25 | |
| Martin van den Bemt | 12 Nov 2002 08:19 | |
| Joe Schaefer | 12 Nov 2002 08:20 | |
| Jeff Turner | 12 Nov 2002 08:20 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 12 Nov 2002 08:28 | |
| Henri Yandell | 12 Nov 2002 08:41 | |
| Costin Manolache | 12 Nov 2002 09:58 | |
| Costin Manolache | 12 Nov 2002 10:14 | |
| Craig R. McClanahan | 12 Nov 2002 11:38 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 12 Nov 2002 12:18 | |
| Glenn Nielsen | 12 Nov 2002 19:05 | |
| Stephen McConnell | 13 Nov 2002 02:23 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 03:49 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 03:55 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 04:02 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 04:20 | |
| Stephen McConnell | 13 Nov 2002 04:21 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 13 Nov 2002 06:44 | |
| Joe Schaefer | 13 Nov 2002 07:38 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 08:50 | |
| Costin Manolache | 13 Nov 2002 10:01 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 10:16 | |
| Sam Ruby | 13 Nov 2002 11:16 | |
| Stefano Mazzocchi | 13 Nov 2002 11:44 | |
| Costin Manolache | 13 Nov 2002 12:11 | |
| Rodent of Unusual Size | 13 Nov 2002 17:38 | |
| Roy T. Fielding | 14 Nov 2002 09:55 | |
| Daniel Rall | 15 Nov 2002 14:44 | |
| Sam Ruby | 15 Nov 2002 19:28 | |
| Andrew C. Oliver | 15 Nov 2002 20:10 | |
| Henri Gomez | 18 Nov 2002 09:57 | |
| Henri Gomez | 18 Nov 2002 10:01 | |
| Henri Gomez | 18 Nov 2002 23:26 |
| Subject: | RE: DOH! Re: Rules for Revolutionaries![]() |
|---|---|
| From: | Martin van den Bemt (mar...@mvdb.net) |
| Date: | 11/08/2002 05:14:16 PM |
| List: | org.apache.community |
Tip: Start, run, notepad <enter> Copy & Paste from the mail Type Save it Sleep on it make the real reply.
;)
If you reply to me, just make the reply :). I like sarcasme and I don't have to read between the lines to figure out what the hell you really meant..
Mvgr, Martin
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acol...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 02:03 To: comm...@apache.org Subject: DOH! Re: Rules for Revolutionaries
Well this makes my second mail faux pax this week. I actually didn't mean to send this. I sometimes type a mail and then discard it or send it to my self.. U/F in mozilla mail (which I'm not accustomed to) send is right below the file menu and I missed. (new laptop). My sincere appologies to Craig and the rest of y'all. I meant to send a way less snide/sarcastic version of this...
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
A slightly more formal way to do this would be to explicitly canonicalize "Apache Way" policies like this at the apache.org level, and these automatically become the default policies for any Apache project unless that project deliberately (perhaps within some limits TBD) chooses to operate differently. The requirement for following these (or specializing them) would be an explicit part of a new project's charter.
yes. Canons are way more efficient than trust and community building. I mean a tight nit group of people whom respect each other and want to work together is NO match for a group of people who don't respect each other and barely want to work together with a set of canon laws. (or should their be three n's in that)
Essentially, this would be a generlization of the way Jakarta projects deal with coding style conventions -- there's a default (from the original Sun coding standards) that is the assumed standard unless a different choice is explicitly made and documented for a particular subproject.
Yes, bracket placement is the most important issue in a community. If you don't use K&R style bracketing I just can't read your code and the project is a total wash. ;-) Fortunately Eclipse lets me reformat it going in and reformat it going out.
The same principle can be applied recursively -- instead of subclasses formally inheriting methods and instance variables (with the option to override), projects and subprojects formally inherit culture and standards unless they explicitly choose to override :-).
Yes "standards" have worked so nicely in the software industry. Why we have several standards for any one thing. Its certainly better than mutual respect.. For as long as one follows one of the standards, it must be good.
I'd bet many people perceive that Apache actually works this way; let's just make that perception into reality.
In order to do this, lets set at least 6 months aside each to draft a large legal document, assign penalties for breaking any of the rules. We'll create a new subproject for "Those who have not joined the shining path to enlightenment" for projects choosing not to ratify the canon. Next we can create a "interperator" subproject, in the event of a disagreement among parties in a project the interperator (think of them as lawyers) can be assigned to help interperate the canon and apply penalities to whomever is judged to be in the wrong. The alternative is to get back the the basics...community, mutual respect, dare I say friendship, working for the best ideas, etc. Rigid guidelines are much easier than that. Thats why XP is such crap, a "metaphor" instead of a BUFD. Same prinicipal. Long live the SDLC!
-Andy
Craig




