107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries
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Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 11:08 
Vadim Gritsenko04 Nov 2002 12:47 
Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 13:10 
John Keyes04 Nov 2002 15:25 
Sam Ruby04 Nov 2002 16:33 
Rodent of Unusual Size05 Nov 2002 17:37 
Peter Donald05 Nov 2002 18:25 
Costin Manolache05 Nov 2002 19:33 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:27 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:30 
Ted Husted06 Nov 2002 05:15 
Rodent of Unusual Size06 Nov 2002 18:55 
Daniel Rall06 Nov 2002 22:12 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 03:43 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 04:11 
Ted Husted07 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi07 Nov 2002 05:33 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 08:01 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 09:27 
Costin Manolache07 Nov 2002 12:39 
Rich Bowen08 Nov 2002 04:36 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 09:06 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 13:50 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 14:05 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 14:46 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 15:11 
Stefano Mazzocchi08 Nov 2002 15:48 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 16:02 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 16:57 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 17:03 
Martin van den Bemt08 Nov 2002 17:14 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:48 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:51 
James Taylor08 Nov 2002 17:56 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 17:58 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 18:05 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 18:17 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:38 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:40 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 00:29 
Jeff Turner09 Nov 2002 02:44 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 03:27 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:13 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:25 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:27 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:35 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:36 
Danny Angus09 Nov 2002 04:39 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:50 
Martin van den Bemt09 Nov 2002 05:21 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 06:28 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 08:50 
Sam Ruby09 Nov 2002 09:29 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 10:23 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:49 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:58 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 12:33 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:29 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:37 
Chuck Murcko09 Nov 2002 18:08 
Rodent of Unusual Size10 Nov 2002 05:29 
Ceki Gülcü10 Nov 2002 06:22 
James Duncan Davidson10 Nov 2002 09:14 
Stefano Mazzocchi11 Nov 2002 19:05 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:26 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 19:41 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 19:43 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:43 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:34 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:36 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 21:51 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 23:18 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 07:18 
Stefano Mazzocchi12 Nov 2002 07:25 
Martin van den Bemt12 Nov 2002 08:19 
Joe Schaefer12 Nov 2002 08:20 
Jeff Turner12 Nov 2002 08:20 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 08:28 
Henri Yandell12 Nov 2002 08:41 
Costin Manolache12 Nov 2002 09:58 
Costin Manolache12 Nov 2002 10:14 
Craig R. McClanahan12 Nov 2002 11:38 
Andrew C. Oliver12 Nov 2002 12:18 
Glenn Nielsen12 Nov 2002 19:05 
Stephen McConnell13 Nov 2002 02:23 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 03:49 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 03:55 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 04:02 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 04:20 
Stephen McConnell13 Nov 2002 04:21 
Stefano Mazzocchi13 Nov 2002 06:44 
Joe Schaefer13 Nov 2002 07:38 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 08:50 
Costin Manolache13 Nov 2002 10:01 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 10:16 
Sam Ruby13 Nov 2002 11:16 
Stefano Mazzocchi13 Nov 2002 11:44 
Costin Manolache13 Nov 2002 12:11 
Rodent of Unusual Size13 Nov 2002 17:38 
Roy T. Fielding14 Nov 2002 09:55 
Daniel Rall15 Nov 2002 14:44 
Sam Ruby15 Nov 2002 19:28 
Andrew C. Oliver15 Nov 2002 20:10 
Henri Gomez18 Nov 2002 09:57 
Henri Gomez18 Nov 2002 10:01 
Henri Gomez18 Nov 2002 23:26 
Subject:Re: Rules for Revolutionaries
From:Stefano Mazzocchi (stef@apache.org)
Date:11/08/2002 03:48:39 PM
List:org.apache.community

Costin Manolache wrote:

In my personal opinion they are just redundant :-)

The rule that matter is that the community control the code and the name - a majority vote in the community can decide ultimately what happens.

Agreed. At the same time, I would love to see something written down about 'how the ASF guidelines are'. They might not be binding, just recommendations, but I think this will help a lot communities becaue these guidelines are distilled after years of try/fail cycles (and lot of pain!)

This is a particular case ( again IMO ) of the "releases are majority votes and can't be vetoed".

Definately agree.

A side effect of the 'revolution' rules is that a veto can be overriden - nobody can veto a revolution ( or a release ), and if you change the entire code base or a part of it you obviously can make changes that were vetoed.

Pier, Fede and I were talking about exactly this last night: I think the committer that proposes an internal fork looses the right to veto a release. Not to vote, but to veto. That's a very important distinction.

There are few important consequences:

1. No person ( or group ) can control a codebase by using veto. It is quite easy to find technical reasons against anything.

Agreed.

2. It removes some personal conflicts. A veto or someone blocking an idea can be painful. It's a big difference between a majority voting against a particular idea and one person vetoing it.

Same here.

3. To take tomcat as an example - it allows diverging groups or opinions to find the common ground. And that's the really great part IMO.

4. Some good ideas that may otherwise be rejected can eventually live.

perfectly agree with you 100%.

-- Stefano Mazzocchi <stef@apache.org> --------------------------------------------------------------------