|Amir E. Aharoni||Oct 17, 2011 6:10 am|
|Patrick Durusau||Oct 18, 2011 3:56 am|
|Amir E. Aharoni||Oct 18, 2011 6:58 am|
|Patrick Durusau||Oct 18, 2011 8:10 am|
|Patrick Durusau||Oct 18, 2011 8:32 am|
|John B||Oct 18, 2011 8:56 am|
|Frode Severin Hatlevik||Oct 19, 2011 10:22 am||.odt|
|Amir E. Aharoni||Oct 19, 2011 10:41 am||.html|
|Andreas J. Guelzow||Oct 19, 2011 11:12 am|
|Andreas J. Guelzow||Oct 19, 2011 11:22 am|
|Frode Severin Hatlevik||Oct 19, 2011 12:08 pm|
|Andreas J. Guelzow||Oct 19, 2011 12:29 pm|
|robe...@us.ibm.com||Oct 19, 2011 12:48 pm|
|Amir E. Aharoni||Oct 22, 2011 9:58 am|
|Thorsten Behrens||Oct 23, 2011 3:34 am|
|Caolán McNamara||Oct 24, 2011 3:20 am|
|Subject:||Re: [office-comment] marking directionality of text inside a paragraph|
|From:||John B (joh...@email2.me)|
|Date:||Oct 18, 2011 8:56:32 am|
Being English and never learning another foreign language, I have very little knowledge of such things.
However, if you are typing in say:- " (1) This is OpenOffice." there would be 2 ways
.OpenOffice is This (1) -- semi reverse or .eciffOnepO si sihT (2) -- Full reverse
Both look strange because you cannot reverse the characters (mirror).
I would have thought that this should be a keyboard feature but what if you want mirror words for some strange reason anyway, perhaps if you press F11 and F12 together it reverses the direction only (as I cannot imagine wanting to reverse the characters themselves), then everything starts from the right hand side including indents and Numbers etc. It would then be like my 2nd version (2) of "This is OpenOffice" - Full reverse
I think I would be in favour of a software version. There must be something that tells the cursor to start from the left and move to the right, I would have thought this would be basic, hence the reverse direction would be likewise and I do not think it needs to be highlighted either.
It would be somewhat like toggling the Insert button, such as if you select an item number say "1." it would start off on the left, you toggle and it jumps to the right.
Anyway these are my thoughts
On 18/10/2011 14:58, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
2011/10/18 Patrick Durusau<patr...@durusau.net>:
Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for the quick reply!
When you say:
A possible challenge in implementing this feature is that the software must show the user who edits the document that a particular piece of inline text has different directionality. The directionality of a paragraph is usually obvious, but the different directionality of inline text is less obvious (especially when it's set correctly!). However, this is probably a consideration for the implementers and not for the standard authors.
Why wouldn't directionality of inline text be obvious to the author?
There are several possible examples of text formatting. A bold font or a hyperlink are visually obvious, almost without exception. A paragraph for which direction is defined is usually also obvious: its alignment usually (although not necessarily) matches the direction and, more importantly, the punctuation marks in it appear at the correct of the line (possibly the most notorious problem of incorrect direction handling is periods and question marks that appear at the wrong end of the line).
It is much less obvious in the middle of the paragraph. Most Unicode letters are automatically placed in correct order, so one or even ten words in Hebrew will appear correctly in an English paragraph. Problems with directionality start when numbers, punctuation marks, or characters in different directionality enter the picture.
Let's say that OpenOffice supports this feature; Alice writes a document in English, adds one sentence in Hebrew and marks it correctly (for example, by selecting the text and pressing the appropriate toolbar button). She emails the document to Bob; if Bob will see the sentence, it will just appear to him correct and natural and won't stand out in any way, like bold text would, so he may fail to notice it.
It is not a major problem, but only something that should be kept in mind. It's not too hard to solve it either: For example, a toolbar button may change when the caret is inside text with different directionality, or such text may be displayed with a slightly different background color, or the caret itself may change its shape etc.
Just for comparison: OpenOffice doesn't try to handle inline directionality at all. Microsoft Word tries to handle it automatically by assuming inline directionality according to the keyboard layout; for example, when the user switches the keyboard layout from English to Hebrew, Word adds a virtual<span dir="rtl">-like thing at that point. Unfortunately, Word doesn't provide any way to remove this virtual direction marker except deleting the characters surrounding it, and it doesn't provide any way to change the directionality of text that was already written.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
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