atom feed52 messages in uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcryptoRe: Demon & DeCSS
FromSent OnAttachments
Donald RamsbottomSep 20, 2000 11:55 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 6:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 21, 2000 8:16 am 
Neil DunbarSep 21, 2000 9:28 am 
Owen BlackerSep 21, 2000 10:46 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 21, 2000 11:10 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:29 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:41 am 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:25 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:30 pm 
Dave BirdSep 21, 2000 2:12 pm 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 12:52 am 
Paul LeylandSep 22, 2000 1:30 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 2:09 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:20 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:25 am 
Jon RibbensSep 22, 2000 3:45 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 3:56 am 
Charles LindseySep 22, 2000 4:05 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 4:20 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 4:55 am 
David SwarbrickSep 22, 2000 5:12 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 5:24 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 8:32 am 
Dave BirdSep 22, 2000 11:22 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 23, 2000 7:35 am 
Owen BlackerSep 23, 2000 8:24 am 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 3:25 pm 
Dave BirdSep 23, 2000 4:26 pm 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 4:38 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
Paul CrowleySep 24, 2000 11:07 am 
Richard WattsSep 25, 2000 3:53 am 
Charles LindseySep 25, 2000 7:09 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 10:40 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 1:13 pm 
Philip RowlandsSep 25, 2000 2:04 pm 
Dave BirdSep 25, 2000 7:35 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 11:04 pm 
Charles LindseySep 26, 2000 1:59 am 
Pete ChownSep 26, 2000 2:38 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:45 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 11:42 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 12:26 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
Jon RibbensSep 27, 2000 3:46 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 7:52 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 11:53 am 
Benjamin GeerSep 27, 2000 6:41 pm 
Subject:Re: Demon & DeCSS
From:Richard Watts (rr@semiramis.org.uk)
Date:Sep 25, 2000 3:53:10 am
List:uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcrypto

On Friday 22 September 2000, Charles Lindsey <ch@clw.cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:17:15 +0200 (/libs/glibc) Richard Watts <rr@semiramis.org.uk> said...

`decryption inevitably involves copying' ? Has there been an authority saying that that's wrong yet ? Not that it matters for interoperability reasons...

I would have thought where the copying was legal for whatever reason (fair use, changing format for personal use in your walkman, time shifting, etc), then any decryption incidental to that copying would be equally lawful.

I would've thought that was the case, too, but I'd be happier if I could point to a judgement saying so. It doesn't matter in this case, of course, since the copying itself would take place in the context of making use of recorded material which you already have an implied licence to use (I suppose you could attack that by claiming that the DVD logo implies that you don't have a licence to use it with anything but an authorised DVD player, but I imagine that would go down like a lead balloon.)

2. DeCSS contains key material to which the DVD consortium holds the copyright.

I doubt anything which is likely only 128 bits long is copyrightable.

I don't see why, per se - length and substantiality aren't linked...

Moreover, isn't there some requirement for "artistic merit" before copyright is possible, which would exclude random numbers more-or-less by definition.

.. unfortunately, I believe there is case law (though I don't have it handy) that says that random numbers (in that case lottery numbers) aren't sufficiently expressive to be copyrightable. I wonder if you could successfully argue that your keys were cunningly chosen to be crackable by the NSA, and were therefore protected .. :-).

[snip]

But then, Demon are well-known for having a silly legal department, as seen in the Godfrey case. Has David Swarbrick's posting access been reconnected yet ?

I think the main problem with Demon's approach is the wording of its standard letter. I am sure it could be worded in a much more conciliatory tone and still be legally watertight. Essentially, it needs to draw attention to a "possible problem" and to invite (even require) some comment from the person concerned.

Well, quite :-),

Richard.