atom feed37 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-hackersRe: Frustration with SCSI system
FromSent OnAttachments
Rick HamellSep 19, 2000 5:35 am 
Rick HamellSep 19, 2000 8:42 am 
Alfred PerlsteinSep 20, 2000 12:51 pm 
Edward ElhaugeSep 20, 2000 12:58 pm 
Wilko BulteSep 20, 2000 12:59 pm 
Marc TardifSep 20, 2000 1:08 pm 
Wilko BulteSep 20, 2000 1:18 pm 
David ScheidtSep 20, 2000 1:20 pm 
Alfred PerlsteinSep 20, 2000 1:23 pm 
Edward ElhaugeSep 20, 2000 1:24 pm 
Fred CliftSep 20, 2000 1:34 pm 
Bernd WalterSep 20, 2000 1:43 pm 
Alfred PerlsteinSep 20, 2000 1:47 pm 
Nick RognessSep 20, 2000 1:48 pm 
Matthew JacobSep 20, 2000 1:55 pm 
Bernd WalterSep 20, 2000 2:26 pm 
Aleksandr A.BabaylovSep 20, 2000 2:55 pm 
Warner LoshSep 20, 2000 3:01 pm 
Warner LoshSep 20, 2000 3:02 pm 
David ScheidtSep 20, 2000 3:28 pm 
Aleksandr A.BabaylovSep 20, 2000 3:50 pm 
Sergey BabkinSep 20, 2000 5:47 pm 
MikeSep 20, 2000 6:09 pm 
David ScheidtSep 20, 2000 6:50 pm 
Aleksandr A.BabaylovSep 20, 2000 8:58 pm 
Keith KempSep 21, 2000 3:28 pm 
Douglas SwarinSep 21, 2000 4:23 pm 
Warner LoshSep 21, 2000 4:44 pm 
Sergey BabkinSep 21, 2000 5:08 pm 
Joe GrecoSep 21, 2000 7:32 pm 
Joe GrecoSep 21, 2000 7:37 pm 
Douglas SwarinSep 21, 2000 10:26 pm 
jdb-...@layer8.netSep 21, 2000 11:55 pm 
Adrian ChaddSep 22, 2000 7:23 am 
Wes PetersSep 22, 2000 10:41 pm 
Warner LoshSep 23, 2000 8:21 am 
Andreas KlemmOct 3, 2000 11:18 am 
Subject:Re: Frustration with SCSI system
From:jdb-...@layer8.net (jdb-@layer8.net)
Date:Sep 21, 2000 11:55:36 pm
List:org.freebsd.freebsd-hackers

Ideally, I would use one of the IDE flash-based drives on the market. One brand is SanDisk, and they take a standard IDE connector and fit into a 3.5" drive bay. You can get them very reasonably priced up to 128MB or so, which is just fine for a boot partition. Since flash drives have no moving parts, mechanical failure is not an issue, and since the root partition is not written to much, the flash will not wear out for a long time (flash cells wear out after about 100,000 writes; the flash drives do load balancing and stuff to ensure that the (many) cells in the drive are written to evenly).

I would suggest just not writing them at all if you can avoid it. They seem to need (and are spec'd for) about 500ms of power after a write which isn't feasible with some power-off situations.

I've had them occasionally behave worse and develop "bad" sectors under what i thought to be normal operating conditions (meaning, I thought I satisfied the above limitation).

The bright side is that reclaiming "bad" sectors is just rewriting them, but if that's in the middle of something useful, like an inode for something in /lib, your superblock, the data portion of /etc/passwd, etc., you're in uncomfortable shape.

I would definitely advocate (and actively use them for) completely readonly disks, either by running completely readonly straight from the SanDisk or by keeping a (compressed?) readonly filesystem on the disk, booting readonly into a bootstrap environment, and copying or expanding a read/write root disk into a memory-based disk device (MD, MFS), and calling that your / partition. it's admittedly a rather klunky solution for a general purpose install.

It also makes putting /etc on non-volatile media difficult, but it is still workable with a bit of ingenuity, or maybe by using a small bootstrap /etc which is remounted with a stable vinum partition (I haven't actually tried this; implementation is left as an exercise for the reader).

Another consideration is that they have slow write performance relative to typical IDE or (especially) memory-based media.

- joel

Doug

On Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 03:29:17PM -0700, Keith Kemp wrote:

On the topic of Vinum, what do you guys do about the / partion since it appears that a vinum partion can not be the boot partion.

I would hate to have the drive with my boot partion fail and be left with a non working server.

Keith Kemp

-----Original Message----- From: owne@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owne@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Alfred Perlstein Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 12:51 PM To: Edward Elhauge Cc: free@FreeBSD.ORG; free@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Frustration with SCSI system

* Edward Elhauge <ee@uncanny.net> [000920 12:48] wrote:

Hello Freebsders,

I've been using FreeBSD over the last 6 years (since I switched from NetBSD) to run a small ISP out of my basement.

I've had about six disk crashes in as many years and still don't know how to work reliably with them.

"man vinum"

software mirroring == good.

:)

-Alfred

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