atom feed59 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-hackersRe: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependenci...
FromSent OnAttachments
Darren ReedJun 9, 1998 9:06 am 
Hellmuth MichaelisJun 9, 1998 10:51 am 
Christopher R. BowmanJun 9, 1998 11:39 am 
The Classiest Man AliveJun 9, 1998 12:47 pm 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 9, 1998 4:31 pm 
Darren ReedJun 10, 1998 6:35 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 10, 1998 7:17 am 
Darren ReedJun 10, 1998 7:31 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 10, 1998 7:37 am 
Darren ReedJun 10, 1998 8:04 am 
The Classiest Man AliveJun 10, 1998 8:28 am 
Snob Art GenreJun 10, 1998 9:41 am 
Archie CobbsJun 10, 1998 12:26 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 2:57 pm 
MikeJun 15, 1998 3:36 pm 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 15, 1998 4:07 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 4:30 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 4:49 pm 
MikeJun 15, 1998 5:19 pm 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 15, 1998 5:43 pm 
desiertosJun 15, 1998 6:01 pm 
Tim VanderhoekJun 15, 1998 6:34 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 7:27 pm 
Jay NelsonJun 15, 1998 7:43 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 8:08 pm 
Snob Art GenreJun 15, 1998 10:38 pm 
Sue BlakeJun 15, 1998 11:46 pm 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 16, 1998 12:42 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 16, 1998 1:00 am 
Garance A DrosihnJun 16, 1998 1:09 am 
Garance A DrosihnJun 16, 1998 1:20 am 
Keith JonesJun 16, 1998 2:31 am 
Nick HibmaJun 16, 1998 2:34 am 
Nick HibmaJun 16, 1998 3:12 am 
Tim VanderhoekJun 16, 1998 4:07 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 16, 1998 4:54 am 
Jamie BowdenJun 16, 1998 5:05 am 
Jamie BowdenJun 16, 1998 5:45 am 
Sue BlakeJun 16, 1998 7:46 am 
Sue BlakeJun 16, 1998 7:59 am 
Snob Art GenreJun 16, 1998 8:19 am 
Sue BlakeJun 16, 1998 8:23 am 
Snob Art GenreJun 16, 1998 8:30 am 
Marc van KempenJun 16, 1998 10:07 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 16, 1998 9:49 pm 
Nick HibmaJun 17, 1998 8:26 am 
Garance A DrosihnJun 17, 1998 9:19 am 
Nick HibmaJun 17, 1998 10:00 am 
Garance A DrosihnJun 17, 1998 10:53 am 
Snob Art GenreJun 17, 1998 1:14 pm 
Stefan EggersJun 19, 1998 1:09 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 20, 1998 9:56 pm 
AdaJun 21, 1998 2:35 am 
Sue BlakeJun 21, 1998 2:48 pm 
Jordan K. HubbardJun 21, 1998 4:50 pm 
Chet RameyJun 24, 1998 2:30 pm 
AdaJun 24, 1998 7:35 pm 
Richard ColemanJun 25, 1998 10:04 am 
Sue BlakeJul 18, 1998 2:21 pm 
Subject:Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ?
From:Sue Blake (su@welearn.com.au)
Date:Jun 15, 1998 4:49:44 pm
List:org.freebsd.freebsd-hackers

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:07:33PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

After my third attempt to install from CD, running out of disk space (without being told so) every time, I threw the CD in the bin and booted DOS. Where were you to tell me it's easy to install packages afterwards? Where were you to tell me that I could use alt-F2 though I'd need a unix

Umm, Sue, I appreciate all that you do to help newbies, but I think

Good deeds never stopped anyone from doing bad deeds :-)

you're missing a fundamental point here. This is a volunteer project, first and foremost, and if people really *want* some feature like this then they simply have to implement it - neither I nor anyone else has the time an energy to implement each and every creature comfort that users would like to see, as much as we might like to (and the total lack of space information in a package, especially if it's sitting at the end of an FTP connection, makes this a little harder than most folks would think). If users don't implement the features they want in a volunteer OS then they don't get them, it's just that simple.

Sure. Like I said, problems are not an issue at all. If they can't be fixed right away, or at all, that's acceptable. We can document it to protect the unprepared if necessary.

The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else.

I also know that not everyone necessarily has the ability to beat a path towards their own personal Shangri-la, but that's what commercial software is for - if you really need more than any free OS is able to give you then it's probably time to reach for your wallet and PAY for something which does. I believe that both Solaris and SCO provide better diagnostics for the out-of-disk space condition, as does Windows 95 if you're on a tighter budget.

I doubt many would want either of them. I found it very difficult to get 1. advice on how much space each distribution would take to install (which is not the same as final disk space) 2. advice during or before installation on the size of packages, like is it a few K or a few tens of megs. Anything to assist here would be worthwhile.

I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to anyone.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic with this message, I'm just being factual. Going "bitch bitch bitch stupid software bitch bitch bitch wanted to throw the fucking CD in the trash bitch bitch bitch Win95 has this feature bitch bitch bitch" is only a good way of alienating folks who know that this is a problem but lack the time to do much about it. If you want it fixed, FIX IT!

Sure, as soon as I can I will, but isn't that a bit of a catch 22?

Obviously I don't feel frustrated about freebsd as I did back then. If others feel like that now, nobody will get to see their anger, they'll just drift away bad-mouthing freebsd. We have to avoid that happening where it is reasonably practical to do so. Tailoring everything to experts is an easy trap to slip into. We're just starting to come out of that trap and when I think I see people slipping back into it it scares the bejeebers outa me.

That's the lovely thing about free software - you have that option and are always encouraged to exercise it, no matter who you are, if it's something you really really want. If you're not motivated enough to gain the skills necessary to do it, then I guess you didn't want the feature that much after all, did ya? :-)

I have shown many sides, but I don't think I have ever shown lack of motivation. Hand over the tardis and I'll shut up and fix it :-)

--

Regards, -*Sue*-

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