| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| 101 earlier messages | ||
| Lester Caine | May 10, 2011 11:22 am | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 10, 2011 11:27 am | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 10, 2011 11:28 am | |
| Matthew Weier O'Phinney | May 10, 2011 12:27 pm | |
| dukeofgaming | May 10, 2011 12:28 pm | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 10, 2011 12:31 pm | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 10, 2011 12:35 pm | |
| Drak | May 10, 2011 12:36 pm | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 10, 2011 12:40 pm | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 10, 2011 12:41 pm | |
| dukeofgaming | May 10, 2011 12:44 pm | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 10, 2011 12:44 pm | |
| Drak | May 10, 2011 12:49 pm | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 10, 2011 12:51 pm | |
| Chad Fulton | May 10, 2011 1:02 pm | |
| Christopher Jones | May 10, 2011 1:28 pm | |
| Lester Caine | May 10, 2011 2:32 pm | |
| Lars Schultz | May 10, 2011 3:03 pm | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 10, 2011 3:27 pm | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 10, 2011 5:01 pm | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 10, 2011 5:15 pm | |
| Lester Caine | May 10, 2011 10:41 pm | |
| Lars Schultz | May 10, 2011 11:34 pm | |
| dukeofgaming | May 10, 2011 11:49 pm | |
| Lars Schultz | May 11, 2011 12:02 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 12:20 am | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 11, 2011 12:44 am | |
| Michael Wallner | May 11, 2011 12:51 am | |
| Lars Schultz | May 11, 2011 12:59 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 1:04 am | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 1:11 am | |
| Lars Schultz | May 11, 2011 1:25 am | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 1:39 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 11, 2011 1:54 am | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 2:04 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 2:21 am | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 11, 2011 2:30 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 11, 2011 2:44 am | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 2:59 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 3:43 am | |
| Richard Quadling | May 11, 2011 4:31 am | |
| Christian Kaps | May 11, 2011 5:21 am | |
| Drak | May 11, 2011 5:29 am | |
| Mike van Riel | May 11, 2011 5:35 am | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 11, 2011 5:52 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 6:18 am | |
| Mike van Riel | May 11, 2011 6:27 am | |
| Ferenc Kovacs | May 11, 2011 6:31 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 6:59 am | |
| Matthew Weier O'Phinney | May 11, 2011 8:30 am | |
| Matthew Weier O'Phinney | May 11, 2011 8:32 am | |
| Philip Olson | May 11, 2011 8:42 am | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 8:58 am | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 9:06 am | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 9:21 am | |
| Christopher Jones | May 11, 2011 9:54 am | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 11, 2011 9:58 am | |
| Lester Caine | May 11, 2011 10:11 am | |
| Arvids Godjuks | May 11, 2011 10:18 am | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 10:28 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | May 11, 2011 11:03 am | |
| Ilia Alshanetsky | May 11, 2011 11:14 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 11, 2011 11:20 am | |
| Philip Olson | May 11, 2011 11:33 am | |
| Martin Scotta | May 11, 2011 11:34 am | |
| Stas Malyshev | May 11, 2011 11:43 am | |
| Stas Malyshev | May 11, 2011 11:50 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 11, 2011 11:54 am | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 12:17 pm | |
| Stas Malyshev | May 11, 2011 12:30 pm | |
| Stas Malyshev | May 11, 2011 12:32 pm | |
| Sebastian Bergmann | May 11, 2011 1:55 pm | |
| Sebastian Bergmann | May 11, 2011 1:59 pm | |
| Sebastian Bergmann | May 11, 2011 2:01 pm | |
| Sebastian Bergmann | May 11, 2011 2:05 pm | |
| Philip Olson | May 11, 2011 2:10 pm | |
| Mike van Riel | May 11, 2011 2:53 pm | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 2:53 pm | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 11, 2011 2:55 pm | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 2:57 pm | |
| Marcelo Gornstein | May 11, 2011 3:05 pm | |
| dukeofgaming | May 11, 2011 3:06 pm | |
| guil...@gmail.com | May 11, 2011 3:14 pm | |
| Stefan Marr | May 11, 2011 3:20 pm | |
| Philip Olson | May 11, 2011 4:28 pm | |
| Stas Malyshev | May 11, 2011 5:02 pm | |
| Jordi Boggiano | May 11, 2011 5:55 pm | |
| Philip Olson | May 12, 2011 10:29 am | |
| Alexey Shein | May 13, 2011 7:13 am | .txt, .txt |
| Alexey Shein | May 16, 2011 6:51 am | .txt, .txt |
| Michael Morris | May 16, 2011 2:16 pm | |
| Kalle Sommer Nielsen | May 16, 2011 2:29 pm | |
| Subject: | Re: [PHP-DEV] annotations again | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Matthew Weier O'Phinney (weie...@php.net) | |
| Date: | May 11, 2011 8:30:21 am | |
| List: | net.php.lists.internals | |
On 2011-05-11, dukeofgaming <duke...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Lester Caine <les...@lsces.co.uk> wrote:
guil...@gmail.com wrote:
So, please stop saying "no" to every feature request that comes in and start to discuss the actual impact of each feature.
I think that MY only problem with you 'adding annotations because it is missing' is simply that I've already been doing it for years - just not calling it 'annotations' ... its 'documentation' and always has been ...
It is really troubling to read that statement. Seems there are still some that don't really have a clue of what annotations are, even when the RFC clearly links to them. Annotations ARE NOT documentation; in the case of PHP, documentation is being used as annotations because there is no language implementation, which exists in other languages (Java, .NET) and they are widely used. Also, some use annotations as documentation (e.g. store the class version), but again, annotations ARE NOT documentation. Don't let the "@" notation shared with docblock fool you.
That may be the case. However, annotations within docblocks have been the de facto standard for going on a decade. Adding a new language feature at this point means several things:
* Developers using annotations in docblocks now need to consider migrating to "true" annotations, which in turn means... * BC break of their code with previous versions of PHP. * In many cases, not only are code changes needed (moving annotations out of docblocks), but also likely the code handling the annotations will need to be updated -- which means at least one if not several maintenance cycles. Expensive. * And don't forget the cases where docblock annotations were serving multiple purposes. A good example: ZF server classes utilize the same docblock annotations used by phpDocumentor (well, now DocBlox!) in order to deliver method signatures to clients. Switching to annotations would end up duplicating information in this use case.
The point that myself and others have been trying to make is that we may agree with the need for annotations, but due to the long-standing history of using annotations in docblocks, coupled with the desire to reduce potential BC breaks and maintenance cycles, we'd prefer to see an annotation parser for docblocks vs a new language syntax.
Guilherme, I think its easy to assume that people already have some sense of what annotations are, but perhaps the wiki entry could be more educational about it?. The first time I read about annotations it was from this link: http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/annotations.html; perhaps an intro like that could help to make the case for annotations crystal clear?.
The real problem at present is that the whole ecosystem is now so disjointed that PHP5.2 is the last version that is still fairly fully supported, but people are pushing for 5.4 before 5.3 has been properly put to bed. We need to finish of what is already added fully before pushing more new stuff in? That INCLUDES in the ecosystem!
And we still have the hole that is unicode ...
This is another thing that troubles me when I read this list. How does the PHP core dev community sets priorities?, is there some sort of roadmap?, is there a process to create this roadmap?, or is it just all a generalized best intention to do things.
I'm aware that the more features the more has to be maintained, but, what I see is that there is lot of potential for the core dev community to grow and at its current state it doesn't seem to be able scale due to the lack of a roadmap/process.
I'm not trying to be a douche here, just saying: I see lots of criticism towards everything and very few agreements.
Best regards,
David Vega
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