83 messages in org.w3.www-tagRE: draft findings on Unsafe Methods ...
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Dan ConnollyApr 15, 2002 8:50 am 
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Mark BakerApr 15, 2002 8:00 pm 
Keith MooreApr 15, 2002 8:37 pm 
Scott CantorApr 15, 2002 9:28 pm 
Edwin KhodabakchianApr 15, 2002 9:34 pm 
David OrchardApr 15, 2002 10:18 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 15, 2002 11:17 pm 
Tim BrayApr 15, 2002 11:32 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 1:01 am 
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Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 1:09 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 2:11 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 3:02 am 
Mark BakerApr 16, 2002 4:54 am 
Williams, StuartApr 16, 2002 8:22 am 
Keith MooreApr 16, 2002 8:32 am 
jon...@research.att.comApr 16, 2002 8:44 am 
Scott CantorApr 16, 2002 8:55 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 9:40 am 
Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 9:42 am 
Hutchison, NigelApr 16, 2002 9:43 am 
Henrik Frystyk NielsenApr 16, 2002 10:48 am 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 16, 2002 1:46 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 16, 2002 6:39 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 16, 2002 7:54 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 16, 2002 10:10 pm 
Graham KlyneApr 17, 2002 1:54 am 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 12:33 am 
Graham KlyneApr 18, 2002 9:11 am 
Alex RousskovApr 18, 2002 9:30 am 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 9:45 am 
Graham KlyneApr 18, 2002 11:58 am 
Roy T. FieldingApr 18, 2002 3:11 pm 
Don BoxApr 18, 2002 6:28 pm 
Mark BakerApr 18, 2002 8:50 pm 
Keith MooreApr 18, 2002 8:54 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 10:00 pm 
Graham KlyneApr 19, 2002 12:53 am 
Bill de hÓraApr 19, 2002 4:18 am 
Roy T. FieldingApr 19, 2002 1:20 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 22, 2002 3:23 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 22, 2002 4:01 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 22, 2002 8:17 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 22, 2002 10:21 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 23, 2002 5:36 am 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 12:03 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 2:09 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 23, 2002 2:14 pm 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 2:53 pm 
David OrchardApr 23, 2002 4:14 pm 
Keith MooreApr 23, 2002 5:05 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 23, 2002 5:14 pm 
Simon St.LaurentApr 23, 2002 5:18 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 23, 2002 6:31 pm 
Mark BakerApr 23, 2002 6:36 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 8:03 pm 
Tim BrayApr 23, 2002 8:30 pm 
Dan ConnollyApr 23, 2002 9:05 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 9:10 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 23, 2002 9:28 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 9:42 pm 
Jeff BoneApr 23, 2002 9:42 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:02 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 10:05 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:27 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:38 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 10:57 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 11:16 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 11:20 pm 
Dan ConnollyApr 23, 2002 11:23 pm 
Tim BrayApr 23, 2002 11:56 pm 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 7:23 am 
Larry MasinterApr 24, 2002 8:47 am 
Keith MooreApr 24, 2002 10:46 am 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am 
Aaron SwartzApr 24, 2002 11:27 am 
Mike DierkenApr 24, 2002 12:06 pm 
David OrchardApr 25, 2002 10:54 am 
Roy T. FieldingMay 5, 2002 3:38 am 
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Subject:RE: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7)Actions...
From:Bullard, Claude L (Len) (clbu@ingr.com)
Date:Apr 16, 2002 1:46:20 pm
List:org.w3.www-tag

Please clarify what information can be hidden behind SOAP endpoints that the information owner should expose to web interfaces and the tools mentioned and why?

Since it is unreasonable to assume all digital information is required to be web accessible, I assume there is a way to define that information is "on the web" or that it is "off the web". Then I would have to assume "unsafe methods" can violate that boundary or change "on the web" information in a way unacceptable to the information owner even if discoverable via auditing.

It seems clear that SOAP/RPC can enable information to be "off the Web" but "on the Internet" and that this can be "unsafe" or only as safe as the interface owner can make it and that this contract is individually made. The HTTP contract can be safer, but again, given tunneling and use of methods with side effects, the contract is still individual. Further, given common practices, that isn't likely to change soon if ever. So the web is possibly unsafe until the correspondents agree to safety measures and verify these. This is similar to a concept of operations agreement with a certification clause that can reference the document DC is drafting for HTTP, and would require something similar if SOAP/RPC is used.

Use of the tools is a different issue. Yes, they are useful. No, one can't require their use to be "on the web". One can require safe operations insofar as that can be specified and verified and this can be done for any architecture including one that uses SOAP/RPC. It is harder and yes, at that point, the leverage of the REST architecture and the tools come into play.

len

From: Paul Prescod [mailto:pa@prescod.net]

On the matter of hidden resources I have some sympathies (but not solutions). It seems that caching and bookmarking are the things that suffer, as noted by others [1].

Please consider this issue of "bookmarking" more closely. Bookmarking is the least of the issues. It is linking *in all of its forms*. I'm talking about XInclude, XLink, XPath, RSS, XHTML, XSLT, RDF, WebLogs and Topic Maps. These are *powerful* information combination and relation tools. But they cannot be used with information hidden behind SOAP endpoints. I would say that any service that denies its users the use of these tools is somewhat broken.