atom feed193 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRe: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 again
FromSent OnAttachments
24 earlier messages
Christopher JonesMay 9, 2011 10:27 am 
Stas MalyshevMay 9, 2011 10:30 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 10:31 am 
Andi GutmansMay 9, 2011 10:32 am 
Rasmus LerdorfMay 9, 2011 10:38 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 9, 2011 10:43 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 10:44 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 10:47 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 10:50 am 
Rasmus LerdorfMay 9, 2011 10:53 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 11:07 am 
Stas MalyshevMay 9, 2011 11:13 am 
Stas MalyshevMay 9, 2011 11:35 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 9, 2011 11:39 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 11:52 am 
Stefan MarrMay 9, 2011 12:33 pm 
Lester CaineMay 9, 2011 2:41 pm 
dukeofgamingMay 9, 2011 3:00 pm 
Ilia AlshanetskyMay 9, 2011 3:09 pm 
Andi GutmansMay 9, 2011 3:39 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 4:26 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 4:29 pm 
Lester CaineMay 9, 2011 5:25 pm 
Stas MalyshevMay 9, 2011 5:35 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 5:35 pm 
Ferenc KovacsMay 9, 2011 5:35 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 9, 2011 5:55 pm 
Stas MalyshevMay 9, 2011 6:22 pm 
Pierrick CharronMay 9, 2011 8:03 pm 
Mike WillbanksMay 9, 2011 8:42 pm 
Pierrick CharronMay 9, 2011 8:50 pm 
DrakMay 9, 2011 9:09 pm 
Lester CaineMay 9, 2011 10:45 pm 
Pascal COURTOISMay 9, 2011 11:06 pm 
Chad FultonMay 10, 2011 12:01 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 12:43 am 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 1:02 am 
Jordi BoggianoMay 10, 2011 1:10 am 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 1:16 am 
Rasmus LerdorfMay 10, 2011 1:44 am 
Sebastian BergmannMay 10, 2011 2:34 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 2:39 am 
Sebastian BergmannMay 10, 2011 2:40 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 3:04 am 
DrakMay 10, 2011 3:21 am 
Stefan MarrMay 10, 2011 4:04 am 
Arvids GodjuksMay 10, 2011 4:42 am 
Martin ScottaMay 10, 2011 5:28 am 
Martin ScottaMay 10, 2011 5:46 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 6:13 am 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 6:37 am 
chri...@mohiva.comMay 10, 2011 6:55 am 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 7:12 am 
PasMay 10, 2011 7:19 am 
Alain WilliamsMay 10, 2011 7:19 am 
Christian KapsMay 10, 2011 7:50 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 8:02 am 
Arvids GodjuksMay 10, 2011 8:07 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 10, 2011 8:07 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 8:20 am 
Jonathan Bond-CaronMay 10, 2011 8:43 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 8:49 am 
Jonathan Bond-CaronMay 10, 2011 8:51 am 
Matthew Weier O'PhinneyMay 10, 2011 8:56 am 
Matthew Weier O'PhinneyMay 10, 2011 8:57 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 9:10 am 
Stas MalyshevMay 10, 2011 9:30 am 
guil...@gmail.comMay 10, 2011 9:46 am 
Zeev SuraskiMay 10, 2011 9:47 am 
Sebastian BergmannMay 10, 2011 10:14 am 
Sebastian BergmannMay 10, 2011 10:15 am 
Matthew Weier O'PhinneyMay 10, 2011 10:19 am 
DrakMay 10, 2011 10:29 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 11:12 am 
Christopher JonesMay 10, 2011 11:16 am 
Mike RobinsonMay 10, 2011 11:20 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 11:21 am 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 11:22 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 11:27 am 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 11:28 am 
Matthew Weier O'PhinneyMay 10, 2011 12:27 pm 
dukeofgamingMay 10, 2011 12:28 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 10, 2011 12:31 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 10, 2011 12:35 pm 
DrakMay 10, 2011 12:36 pm 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 12:40 pm 
Ferenc KovacsMay 10, 2011 12:41 pm 
dukeofgamingMay 10, 2011 12:44 pm 
Rasmus LerdorfMay 10, 2011 12:44 pm 
DrakMay 10, 2011 12:49 pm 
Rasmus LerdorfMay 10, 2011 12:51 pm 
Chad FultonMay 10, 2011 1:02 pm 
Christopher JonesMay 10, 2011 1:28 pm 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 2:32 pm 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 3:03 pm 
guil...@gmail.comMay 10, 2011 3:27 pm 
Johannes SchlüterMay 10, 2011 5:01 pm 
Johannes SchlüterMay 10, 2011 5:15 pm 
Lester CaineMay 10, 2011 10:41 pm 
Lars SchultzMay 10, 2011 11:34 pm 
69 later messages
Subject:Re: [PHP-DEV] 5.4 again
From:Ferenc Kovacs (in@tyrael.hu)
Date:May 10, 2011 6:13:09 am
List:net.php.lists.internals

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Arvids Godjuks <arvi@gmail.com>wrote:

Hello Internals!

Here is a point of view from an active user land developer on PHP development and feature requests and the politics going on in internals.

Right now I think PHP has reached a milestone, where it is a need to take a break from large feature developing, witch takes a lot of time and effort, and do the cleanup stuff - bugs, accepted and unfinished features, make enhancement on existing stuff and clean up the code. New features should still come in, but the focus really should be to make a cleanup. I have observed over 3-4 years now some good RFC's that had been just forgotten, despite the fact that they were welcomed and work has been done. For example:

The Tainted Variable RFC - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/taint - personally I would prefer that feature right now over any new feature, because it gives the ability to check for insecure variable handling and make sure you don't miss something. A major security enhancement on the language level (how the people can and will abuse it is not the issue - people do SQL selects in loops - tainted variable abuse is just negligent compared to that one) - isn't it worth the effort to finish that and release?

http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=129009775610865&w=2 <http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=129009775610865&w=2>

The Lemon parser - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/lemon - I remember a lot of discussions on that and work being done and people wanting to do it. What happened?

http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=128872242418092&w=2 and as a bonus: http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=128864465522116&w=2

Error handling RFC's - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/error-optimizations and https://wiki.php.net/rfc/enhanced_error_handling - it's sitting there for quite some time. Any thought on that? Because error handling improvements will benifit all PHP developers - every single PHP developer out there in the wild.

http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=126218949715825&w=2

PHP Native Interface - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php_native_interface - sounds and looks like a good and important project.

yeah, but AFAIK it wasn't finished, and by the comments I'm not entirely sure that it's possible or viable at all. http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=123901102014697&w=2

And I even will not touch the topic of type hints and return type hints. At least param type hinting should be dealt with and done something about it, because right now it's at a half-completed state - only arrays and objects are supported.

that's a touchy subject.

And probably the RFC wiki should be looked at and sorted out - there are some things implemented and rejected, witch haven't been moved to proper sections.

+1

Said all that - I think annotations should be dropped for 5.4 for now and the development and refining continued until it's properly scrutinized, tested and ironed out. Right now to focus on delivering stuff that's all ready done or near completed (performance improvements for example) and look at the backlog and bugs.

"One of things I love most about working with Open Source Software like PHP is the freedom. If I have an itch, I scratch it! If I want to work on new features or document all the kinks and quirks of PHP, I can. We have the freedom to work on exactly the things we care about and want to do."

so the problem is, that the userland is under-represented in the development, because they usually not present on the mailing list and on irc, where discussions and decisions happen, and they usually have different priorities and expectations about the PHP language than the core devs. to make things worse, they cannot write patches for the core, and the core devs rarely work on something which they don't particularly need or like.

and I think that the only option where we can change that, is that us, the php userland devs has to be more active on the mailing lists, irc, bug tracking, writing RFCs etc.

ps: "Right now I think PHP has reached a milestone, where it is a need to take a break from large feature developing" your suggestions also contains really large features. I would add the unicode and LFS support for that list. they are both long requested features, and nothing really happening to solve those.

Tyrael