atom feed11 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.ebsoaRe: [ebsoa] events and agents as defi...
FromSent OnAttachments
john c hardinMay 9, 2005 11:33 am.ppt
john c hardinMay 9, 2005 11:48 am 
David Webber (XML)May 9, 2005 12:14 pm 
john c hardinMay 9, 2005 12:45 pm 
Richard ManningMay 9, 2005 4:29 pm 
David Webber (XML)May 10, 2005 6:51 am 
Dan PattynMay 11, 2005 8:07 am 
Goran ZugicMay 11, 2005 4:16 pm 
Carl MattocksMay 12, 2005 7:15 am 
Goran ZugicMay 12, 2005 9:20 pm 
David Webber (XML)May 13, 2005 9:02 am 
Subject:Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA
From:David Webber (XML) (dav@drrw.info)
Date:May 10, 2005 6:51:46 am
List:org.oasis-open.lists.ebsoa

Richard,

Great feedback - that's exactly my thought here - there are so many good AI agent tools out there - what we need is a simple focused kit of XML-directed methods specifically for ebSOA use that give clear ROI and business purpose -and can be interoperable across a broad selection of tools.

For example I look at what BPSS V2.0 is now - and see opportunities and areas to add discrete components to that. And the BPSS team has already slated these for V3.0 of BPSS consideration. Top of my list is the "hand in the sky" concept - where collaborating process threads can reference a central fact repository to assert and retrieve clauses and rules and status indicators - (eg the BCM linking and switching approach).

This is classic Prolog-esque stuff - but its amazing what an 80:20 approach can bring here. And notice that this is ROI driven.

BPSS works very well today in building a functioning process - for large # of typical environments. Adding this in V3.0 will allow people to tackle another level of more complex interaction flows, thus incrementally improving real business systems. What is especially attractive is being able to deploy a base system - and then add these extended features easily as yor needs expand.

Cheers, DW

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Manning" <Rich@Sun.COM> To: <jo@crossconnections.ws> Cc: "David Webber (XML)" <dav@drrw.info>; "Dan Pattyn" <danp@austin.rr.com>; <vasc@cpd-associates.com>; "Goran Zugic" <gzu@ebxmlsoft.com>; "Dale Castle" <dcas@ebxmlsoft.com>; "ebSOA OASIS TC" <ebs@lists.oasis-open.org>; <disc@jxta.org> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA

Personal Opinion:

Greetings:

I just caught the tail of this thread, my apologies for not reading the whole thread, attachments and links as yet; great to see activity in this area...

IMHO (having done some work in this area), JXTA provides an excellent foundation for distributed, intelligent, mobile, multi-agent systems (also an instance of SOA). There is nothing preventing an agent system architecture/design/implementation from supporting/integrating both FIPA agent standards and OASIS standards. I'd also add W3C, especially the Semantic Web efforts namely OWL/RDF. (FIPA info, http://www.fipa.org/ ;FIPA is now an IEEE Standards Committee, see: http://www.fipa.org/about/fipa_and_ieee.html)

If you haven't already done so, it is worth a look at CMU's RETSINA and Semantic Web efforts which c/should also be of interest (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~softagents/index.html), though I don't know the licensing requirements, if any. There are too many other good agent efforts to list, as someone previously mentioned, though there are agent standards such as FIPA.

While there may be overlap among the many specs, these are minimal and can be normalized given sufficient interest (and wheel reinvention avoidance). Consider FIPA-compliant agents which also support OASIS / Web service standards and common bindings (SOAP/WSDL/UDDI/ebXML-RR/ etc.) and W3C standards (*ML, Semantic Web, etc.) deployed over a FIPA/JXTA agent ecosystem.

Agents as Web services and vice versa, not an original thought perhaps but also not a common thought. Perhaps these specs/standards may converge and synthesize eventually, however at present they are often complimentary...e.g., compare/contrast BPEL/BPM/Choreography/Ontology/UBL/etc with FIPA Agent Communications (Contract Net Interaction Protocol), Agent Management, Ontology, ACL, etc.

For me, the great thing about all of this is that JXTA, FIPA, OASIS, W3C are open, implementation, language, platform, network neutral standards and/or specifications. There are commercial and open source implementations for various elements too. Finally, while not trivial it is possible to integrate and synthesize these many specs and standards (even implementations) to achieve what "I think" you are looking for...

..and at the top of my soapbox list co-equal with agent systems...AI,. but I'll spare you my pro-AI rants & raves as this isn't the appropriate forum ;)

----- Original Message ----- From: john c hardin <john@comcast.net> Date: Monday, May 9, 2005 3:46 pm Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA

Understood David, thank you. I was suggesting that we use applicable universal "concepts" from the JXTA projects, not the actual implementation. Obviously, JXTA could be implemented as an agent framework if the implementer chose to do so.

I just wanted to make sure that we get a well-rounded picture of agent concepts.

David Webber (XML) wrote:

John,

The caveat I have is simple - the design of ebSOA should be implementation> language neutral.

That is the whole point behind the BCM linking and switching - its based on classical declarative logic processing - and can be expressed as XML structures - that can then be read and processed by any agent engine.

There are literally 100 different agent engines out there - all with their own proprietary syntan and API - (even if they are written in Java - or maybe especially if they are written in Java!).

What the world does not have is a common method of integrating *all* these. That I believe is where traditionally OASIS can look to make a significant> contribution...

DW

----- Original Message ----- From: "john c hardin" <john@comcast.net> To: <jo@crossconnections.ws> Cc: "Dan Pattyn" <danp@austin.rr.com>; "David RR Webber" <dav@drrw.info>; <vasc@cpd-associates.com>; "Goran Zugic" <gzu@ebxmlsoft.com>; "Dale Castle" <dcas@ebxmlsoft.com>; "ebSOA OASIS TC" <ebs@lists.oasis-open.org>; <rich@sun.com>; <disc@jxta.org> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA

Richard Manning from Sun Microsystems presented on JXTA at the 2004

Symposium.

Slides are found at:

http://www.oasis-open.org/events/symposium/slides/manning.pdf

john c hardin wrote:

I would like to start a conversation on the list re: the agent architecture, as proposed in the Federated Enterprise Reference Architecture approach.

Thanks to Goran, Vasco and the ebXMLsoft team for creating the presentation attached, and to David Webber and Dan Pattyn for pointing>>>me to the BCM material.

I think that there are several inputs that we can include to round out the ideas of a non-intrusive, event-driven agent model. Opinions

are>>>requested from the group on these, and preferences for how to specify>>>the agent mechanisms using a combination of the approaches here:

- The Agent Framework is described in the attached BCM / FERA presentation. There is a lot of good material here, however, we need to make sure that we are re-using stable OASIS specs where possible. I would like to map the specifications mentioned in the presentation to the existing specs.

- The BCM Linking and Switching as a mechanism to bind to the agent framework

- Possibly including JXTA concepts, where possible, as they describe>>>peering between components and applications. http://www.jxta.org/JXTAFAQ.html

- Complex Event Processing, using the concepts outlined by David Luckham: From http://www.complexevents.com/

Complex Event Processing (CEP) is an emerging technology for building>>>and managing information systems including:

* Business Activity Monitoring * Business Process Management * Enterprise Application Integration * Event-Driven Architectures * Application Servers and Middleware * Network and Systems Security

-- ~~~~~~~~~ john c hardin Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa 313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number mailto:jo@crossconnections.ws

"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the

image of a

global

village."

Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962

-- ~~~~~~~~~ john c hardin Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa 313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number mailto:jo@crossconnections.ws

"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of a global village."

Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962