atom feed88 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRe: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax
FromSent OnAttachments
Christian SchneiderNov 4, 2003 3:32 pm.patch
Rasmus LerdorfNov 4, 2003 5:06 pm 
Ken TossellNov 4, 2003 5:09 pm 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 12:49 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 12:59 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 1:03 am 
Kouber SaparevNov 5, 2003 1:47 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 2:06 am 
s0niXNov 5, 2003 2:43 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 3:20 am 
Mike RobinsonNov 5, 2003 3:26 am 
Dirkjan OchtmanNov 5, 2003 3:45 am 
Cesare D'AmicoNov 5, 2003 4:02 am 
Alexey TrunyovNov 5, 2003 4:34 am 
Antony DovgalNov 5, 2003 4:59 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 5:04 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 5:06 am 
Magnus MäättäNov 5, 2003 5:07 am 
Derick RethansNov 5, 2003 5:18 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 7:34 am 
Nicolas ToperNov 5, 2003 7:47 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 7:56 am 
Antony DovgalNov 5, 2003 8:03 am 
Rasmus LerdorfNov 5, 2003 8:21 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 8:30 am 
Andrey HristovNov 5, 2003 8:40 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 8:47 am 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 8:47 am 
Jani TaskinenNov 5, 2003 8:49 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 8:50 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 8:52 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 8:54 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 8:58 am 
Jani TaskinenNov 5, 2003 8:59 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 9:00 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:01 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:05 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:07 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:09 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:18 am 
Romans MalinovskisNov 5, 2003 9:19 am 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 9:20 am 
StephNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Andrey HristovNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:30 am 
Derick RethansNov 5, 2003 9:33 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 9:36 am 
39 later messages
Subject:Re: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax
From:Rasmus Lerdorf (ras@lerdorf.com)
Date:Nov 5, 2003 8:21:30 am
List:net.php.lists.internals

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:

On November 5, 2003 10:34 am, Christian Schneider wrote:

PHP is a mix of C, Perl and other styles anyway, why deny it? It's strength is that it's a pragmatic and simple language but that doesn't mean that nothing should be changed ever.

PHP strength (IMHO) is it's simple and clear syntax, which allows people who come from background in other programming languages can quickly recognize and get used to. Creating confusing alternate syntaxes will bring us ever closer to Perl 6 where there are dozens of way to do the same thing. The end results in a confusing and hard to read/write language that all but the most dedicated of users refuse to use.

Well, like I said before, I am not sure this is a clear case of that. I'm probably the biggest defender around of the no-magic rule, but [] does imply something array-related to most people, so I think the magic part is much smaller than in other proposals we have seen.

That's bull, 5 characters is hard to write? If anything those 5 characters make it absolutely clear to ANYONE that the data is an array and not an object or a string or some other type. When I first saw the syntax is took me a few seconds to realize what it does and the problem would only be compounded when the code is found within an pre-existing complex script.

I do agree that [1,2,3] is not easier to read than array(1,2,3), but I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. I guess we could sample a few newbie users to see what they think $a = [1,2,3]; would do. Of course, then people are going to try to do $a = $b[1,2,3]; and then we are all messed up.

-Rasmus