88 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRe: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Christian Schneider | Nov 4, 2003 3:32 pm |  .patch |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | Nov 4, 2003 5:06 pm | |
| Ken Tossell | Nov 4, 2003 5:09 pm | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 5, 2003 12:49 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 12:59 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 1:03 am | |
| Kouber Saparev | Nov 5, 2003 1:47 am | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 2:06 am | |
| s0niX | Nov 5, 2003 2:43 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 5, 2003 3:20 am | |
| Mike Robinson | Nov 5, 2003 3:26 am | |
| Dirkjan Ochtman | Nov 5, 2003 3:45 am | |
| Cesare D'Amico | Nov 5, 2003 4:02 am | |
| Alexey Trunyov | Nov 5, 2003 4:34 am | |
| Antony Dovgal | Nov 5, 2003 4:59 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 5:04 am | |
| Ilia Alshanetsky | Nov 5, 2003 5:06 am | |
| Magnus Määttä | Nov 5, 2003 5:07 am | |
| Derick Rethans | Nov 5, 2003 5:18 am | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 7:34 am | |
| Nicolas Toper | Nov 5, 2003 7:47 am | |
| Ilia Alshanetsky | Nov 5, 2003 7:56 am | |
| Antony Dovgal | Nov 5, 2003 8:03 am | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | Nov 5, 2003 8:21 am | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 8:30 am | |
| Andrey Hristov | Nov 5, 2003 8:40 am | |
| Ilia Alshanetsky | Nov 5, 2003 8:47 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 5, 2003 8:47 am | |
| Jani Taskinen | Nov 5, 2003 8:49 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 5, 2003 8:50 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 8:52 am | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 8:54 am | |
| George Schlossnagle | Nov 5, 2003 8:58 am | |
| Jani Taskinen | Nov 5, 2003 8:59 am | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 9:01 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 9:05 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 5, 2003 9:07 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 5, 2003 9:09 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 9:18 am | |
| Romans Malinovskis | Nov 5, 2003 9:19 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 5, 2003 9:20 am | |
| Steph | Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am | |
| Andrey Hristov | Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am | |
| Ilia Alshanetsky | Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 9:30 am | |
| Derick Rethans | Nov 5, 2003 9:33 am | |
| George Schlossnagle | Nov 5, 2003 9:36 am | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | Nov 5, 2003 9:45 am | |
| Edin Kadribasic | Nov 5, 2003 9:45 am | |
| Romans Malinovskis | Nov 5, 2003 9:48 am | |
| Moriyoshi Koizumi | Nov 5, 2003 9:50 am | |
| Jani Taskinen | Nov 5, 2003 9:54 am | |
| Jaap van Ganswijk | Nov 5, 2003 10:06 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 10:12 am | |
| Cesare D'Amico | Nov 5, 2003 10:22 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 10:28 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 10:30 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 10:35 am | |
| George Schlossnagle | Nov 5, 2003 10:36 am | |
| Andrei Zmievski | Nov 5, 2003 10:39 am | |
| George Schlossnagle | Nov 5, 2003 10:56 am | |
| David Enderson | Nov 5, 2003 11:02 am | |
| Marco Tabini | Nov 5, 2003 11:10 am | |
| Shane Caraveo | Nov 5, 2003 11:12 am | |
| Michael Walter | Nov 5, 2003 12:26 pm | |
| Greg MacLellan | Nov 5, 2003 12:40 pm | |
| Robert Cummings | Nov 5, 2003 1:08 pm | |
| David Enderson | Nov 5, 2003 1:19 pm | |
| Sara Golemon | Nov 5, 2003 2:40 pm | |
| George Schlossnagle | Nov 5, 2003 3:00 pm | |
| Wez Furlong | Nov 5, 2003 4:06 pm | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 5:07 pm | |
| Ard Biesheuvel | Nov 5, 2003 5:27 pm | |
| Christian Schneider | Nov 5, 2003 5:50 pm | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 6, 2003 12:03 am | |
| Stig S. Bakken | Nov 6, 2003 12:58 am | |
| Kouber Saparev | Nov 6, 2003 1:24 am | |
| Mike Robinson | Nov 6, 2003 3:31 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 6, 2003 4:04 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 6, 2003 4:09 am | |
| Alexey Trunyov | Nov 6, 2003 4:15 am | |
| Ford, Mike [LSS] | Nov 6, 2003 4:27 am | |
| Sascha Schumann | Nov 6, 2003 4:30 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | Nov 6, 2003 5:28 am | |
| Sascha Schumann | Nov 6, 2003 5:46 am | |
| Stig S. Bakken | Nov 6, 2003 6:32 am |
| Subject: | Re: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Rasmus Lerdorf (ras...@lerdorf.com) | |
| Date: | Nov 5, 2003 8:21:30 am | |
| List: | net.php.lists.internals | |
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:
On November 5, 2003 10:34 am, Christian Schneider wrote:
PHP is a mix of C, Perl and other styles anyway, why deny it? It's strength is that it's a pragmatic and simple language but that doesn't mean that nothing should be changed ever.
PHP strength (IMHO) is it's simple and clear syntax, which allows people who come from background in other programming languages can quickly recognize and get used to. Creating confusing alternate syntaxes will bring us ever closer to Perl 6 where there are dozens of way to do the same thing. The end results in a confusing and hard to read/write language that all but the most dedicated of users refuse to use.
Well, like I said before, I am not sure this is a clear case of that. I'm probably the biggest defender around of the no-magic rule, but [] does imply something array-related to most people, so I think the magic part is much smaller than in other proposals we have seen.
That's bull, 5 characters is hard to write? If anything those 5 characters make it absolutely clear to ANYONE that the data is an array and not an object or a string or some other type. When I first saw the syntax is took me a few seconds to realize what it does and the problem would only be compounded when the code is found within an pre-existing complex script.
I do agree that [1,2,3] is not easier to read than array(1,2,3), but I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. I guess we could sample a few newbie users to see what they think $a = [1,2,3]; would do. Of course, then people are going to try to do $a = $b[1,2,3]; and then we are all messed up.
-Rasmus