69 messages in org.codehaus.groovy.devRe: [groovy-dev] Building Groovy
FromSent OnAttachments
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 4:36 am 
MingfaiOct 6, 2008 4:47 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 4:50 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 4:55 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 6, 2008 4:56 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 7:17 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 7:51 am 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 7:59 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:19 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:25 am 
MingfaiOct 6, 2008 8:28 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 8:36 am 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 1:46 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 1:54 pm 
Hans DockterOct 6, 2008 1:54 pm 
Jochen TheodorouOct 6, 2008 2:03 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 2:09 pm 
Paul DuffyOct 6, 2008 7:06 pm 
Luke DaleyOct 6, 2008 8:47 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 6, 2008 9:44 pm 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 11:25 pm 
Russel WinderOct 6, 2008 11:54 pm 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 12:03 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:23 am 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 12:24 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 12:30 am 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 12:35 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:35 am 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 12:36 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 12:41 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 12:54 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 1:40 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 1:50 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 1:55 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 2:25 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 2:35 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 3:09 am 
Guillaume LaforgeOct 7, 2008 3:12 am 
Russel WinderOct 7, 2008 3:17 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 3:24 am 
Paul KingOct 7, 2008 4:04 am 
ma...@dockter.bizOct 7, 2008 4:19 am 
ma...@dockter.bizOct 7, 2008 4:25 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 4:36 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 4:39 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 5:20 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 8:19 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 9:51 am 
Jason DillonOct 7, 2008 10:49 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 7, 2008 12:03 pm 
Hans DockterOct 7, 2008 2:34 pm 
Luke DaleyOct 7, 2008 3:52 pm 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 1:28 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 1:35 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 3:11 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 3:49 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 4:30 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 4:40 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 4:52 am 
Jason DillonOct 8, 2008 5:21 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:23 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:47 am 
Jochen TheodorouOct 8, 2008 6:59 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 8:33 am 
Hans DockterOct 8, 2008 8:43 am 
Paul DuffyOct 9, 2008 8:58 am 
Paul KingOct 9, 2008 1:15 pm 
Danno FerrinOct 9, 2008 1:27 pm 
Paul KingOct 10, 2008 2:31 am 
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Subject:Re: [groovy-dev] Building GroovyActions...
From:Jason Dillon (jaso@gmail.com)
Date:Oct 8, 2008 4:52:18 am
List:org.codehaus.groovy.dev

On Oct 8, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Hans Dockter wrote:

<snip>

Surely it does add some extra xml muck, but IMO its easier to configure a simple M2 pom to compile a project than it is to configure Ant.

you may have seen already, that I am not so keen about the configuration approach at all.

Sure ;-) But I'm just warning that a code-based system is eventually going to atrophy just like the Ant system has, and will become more and more complicated for new folks to comprehend and maintain. Again, my opinion... I've been wrong before though :-P

I am curious about the cases Hans wants to show...

I'm not sure which cases you mean here. But to get back to Jason's point. That a code-based system is bound to become atrophic doesn't make any sense to me. It is all about how you organize this code. This is the same as with normal software development. There are code based build systems out there in the Phyton and Ruby world for a long time (e.g. SCons, Rake). And they are used very successfully.

It could work sure, but that all depends on the level of diligence of the team who is maintaining it. I'm not say it won't work, I'm just saying its probably not going to work, but that is only based on a decade or so of personal experience.

My point is only that the more flexible, to fit a specific users needs/ desires, type of build systems tend to degrade much faster over time than those which follow more ridged standards. And that is it, I'm not saying that uber-flexible systems can't live a nice long life, I'm just saying from experience that they tend to end up as unmaintainable messes much quicker than the alternatives.

Seems that most of the arguments are all in favor of build tools that let the build developer do anything they want, however they want. And its only my suggestion, that this mentality is not really very healthy for the longevity of the project using such a tool.

Now for the reality of which type of system will last longer, that depends entirely upon the group/community responsible for it. So given that, either could work out just fine.

--jason