atom feed26 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-archRe: Quantifying entropy
FromSent OnAttachments
Kris KennawayJul 21, 2000 6:47 pm.c
Louis A. MamakosJul 21, 2000 10:39 pm 
Brian Fundakowski FeldmanJul 22, 2000 7:14 am 
Poul-Henning KampJul 22, 2000 7:26 am 
Louis A. MamakosJul 22, 2000 7:32 am 
Poul-Henning KampJul 22, 2000 7:35 am 
John PolstraJul 22, 2000 9:55 am 
Brian Fundakowski FeldmanJul 22, 2000 10:01 am 
Louis A. MamakosJul 22, 2000 10:15 am 
Poul-Henning KampJul 22, 2000 10:26 am 
Jordan K. HubbardJul 22, 2000 2:31 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 22, 2000 6:19 pm 
Jeroen C. van GelderenJul 22, 2000 7:51 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 22, 2000 8:18 pm 
Louis A. MamakosJul 22, 2000 9:07 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 23, 2000 12:29 am 
Doug BartonJul 23, 2000 12:22 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 25, 2000 11:42 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 25, 2000 11:57 pm 
Kris KennawayJul 26, 2000 12:16 am 
Kris KennawayJul 26, 2000 1:32 am 
Mark MurrayJul 26, 2000 3:19 am 
Kris KennawayJul 26, 2000 3:50 am 
Kris KennawayJul 26, 2000 3:53 am 
Brian DeanJul 31, 2000 3:57 pm 
Mark MurrayJul 31, 2000 11:06 pm 
Subject:Re: Quantifying entropy
From:Kris Kennaway (kr@FreeBSD.org)
Date:Jul 22, 2000 6:19:51 pm
List:org.freebsd.freebsd-arch

On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

Not to be attacking Brian in particular, but I am getting pretty damn tired of seing any suggestion put forth in this thread getting shot down from black helicopters by Elvis.

It's sensible to consider possible attacks against the entropy source, but it's also dependant on the threat model you choose - for most people, radio signal-jamming by men in black suits is probably not on their threat radar :-)

Really, the question to ask is "can this source be used to gather bits which are not under the control of an attacker with modest resources, or visible to him?" The answer for most things is "yes, to some extent" at which point further speculation becomes useless until someone actually implements the measurement hooks and tests them for quality. For example, the "safest" use for the radio receiver may be from the intrinsic sampling noise.

Which hooks should be used on a system and what weight they should be given is a matter for local policy and customization and should be exposed to the administrator (with "reasonable" system defaults).

Yes, of course I could simulate the local quardrant of the galaxy at a quantummechanical level and predict everything, but is it really realistic ?

Actually mainstream physics says this is not even possible, so you can rest easy on that front :-)

I can only applaud and congratulate MarkM on what he has managed to do so far in the face of an infinite army of bikeshed building arm-chair generals.

I havent seen anyone attacking Mark for what he has done. He was attacked for his methods in introducing it to FreeBSD, and there are implementation and algorithmic details yet to be resolved to everyone's satisfcation, but I think everyone agrees that it's a fundamentally good and useful thing.

To paraphrase a saying: when the only discussion metaphor you have is a bikeshed, all the world looks green :-)

Kris

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