atom feed88 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRE: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax
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Christian SchneiderNov 4, 2003 3:32 pm.patch
Rasmus LerdorfNov 4, 2003 5:06 pm 
Ken TossellNov 4, 2003 5:09 pm 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 12:49 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 12:59 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 1:03 am 
Kouber SaparevNov 5, 2003 1:47 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 2:06 am 
s0niXNov 5, 2003 2:43 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 3:20 am 
Mike RobinsonNov 5, 2003 3:26 am 
Dirkjan OchtmanNov 5, 2003 3:45 am 
Cesare D'AmicoNov 5, 2003 4:02 am 
Alexey TrunyovNov 5, 2003 4:34 am 
Antony DovgalNov 5, 2003 4:59 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 5:04 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 5:06 am 
Magnus MäättäNov 5, 2003 5:07 am 
Derick RethansNov 5, 2003 5:18 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 7:34 am 
Nicolas ToperNov 5, 2003 7:47 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 7:56 am 
Antony DovgalNov 5, 2003 8:03 am 
Rasmus LerdorfNov 5, 2003 8:21 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 8:30 am 
Andrey HristovNov 5, 2003 8:40 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 8:47 am 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 8:47 am 
Jani TaskinenNov 5, 2003 8:49 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 8:50 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 8:52 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 8:54 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 8:58 am 
Jani TaskinenNov 5, 2003 8:59 am 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 9:00 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:01 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:05 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:07 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 5, 2003 9:09 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:18 am 
Romans MalinovskisNov 5, 2003 9:19 am 
Andi GutmansNov 5, 2003 9:20 am 
StephNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Andrey HristovNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Ilia AlshanetskyNov 5, 2003 9:25 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 9:30 am 
Derick RethansNov 5, 2003 9:33 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 9:36 am 
Rasmus LerdorfNov 5, 2003 9:45 am 
Edin KadribasicNov 5, 2003 9:45 am 
Romans MalinovskisNov 5, 2003 9:48 am 
Moriyoshi KoizumiNov 5, 2003 9:50 am 
Jani TaskinenNov 5, 2003 9:54 am 
Jaap van GanswijkNov 5, 2003 10:06 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 10:12 am 
Cesare D'AmicoNov 5, 2003 10:22 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 10:28 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 10:30 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 10:35 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 10:36 am 
Andrei ZmievskiNov 5, 2003 10:39 am 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 10:56 am 
David EndersonNov 5, 2003 11:02 am 
Marco TabiniNov 5, 2003 11:10 am 
Shane CaraveoNov 5, 2003 11:12 am 
Michael WalterNov 5, 2003 12:26 pm 
Greg MacLellanNov 5, 2003 12:40 pm 
Robert CummingsNov 5, 2003 1:08 pm 
David EndersonNov 5, 2003 1:19 pm 
Sara GolemonNov 5, 2003 2:40 pm 
George SchlossnagleNov 5, 2003 3:00 pm 
Wez FurlongNov 5, 2003 4:06 pm 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 5:07 pm 
Ard BiesheuvelNov 5, 2003 5:27 pm 
Christian SchneiderNov 5, 2003 5:50 pm 
Andi GutmansNov 6, 2003 12:03 am 
Stig S. BakkenNov 6, 2003 12:58 am 
Kouber SaparevNov 6, 2003 1:24 am 
Mike RobinsonNov 6, 2003 3:31 am 
Andi GutmansNov 6, 2003 4:04 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 6, 2003 4:09 am 
Alexey TrunyovNov 6, 2003 4:15 am 
Ford, Mike [LSS]Nov 6, 2003 4:27 am 
Sascha SchumannNov 6, 2003 4:30 am 
Andi GutmansNov 6, 2003 5:28 am 
Sascha SchumannNov 6, 2003 5:46 am 
Stig S. BakkenNov 6, 2003 6:32 am 
Subject:RE: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax
From:Ford, Mike [LSS] (M.F@lmu.ac.uk)
Date:Nov 6, 2003 4:09:32 am
List:net.php.lists.internals

On 05 November 2003 17:19, Marco Tabini wrote:

Ford, Mike [LSS] wrote:

On 05 November 2003 17:06, Marco Tabini contributed these pearls of wisdom:

Christian Schneider wrote:

Marco Tabini wrote:

$a = [[1,2,3],[1=>[1,3,2,2], "a"=>[[1,2,3,4],4,[1,2]]];

$a = array(array(1,2,3),array(1=>array(1,3,2,2), "a"=>array(array(1,2,3,4),4,array(1,2)));

Besides my previous points, something even more abominable:

$a = [1,2,$b[11]];

Is that confusing enough for you? ;-)

What's confusing about it?

The fact that $b[11] references an item of an array, while [1,2,$b[11]] assigns values to the array $a.

That's not confusing -- at least no more so than the different meanings of - in $b = -$a and $b = $c - $a.

The fact that you (and, probably, most of us) can't tell right off the bat

Bzzt! Wrong! It was because I *could* tell right off the bat exactly what it meant that I asked why it was confusing.

is a clear sign that this is a bad idea, because it's ambiguous and confusing.

And again, wrong assumption -- I asked what's confusing because to me it looks completely unambiguous and totally clear.

The same line using the current syntax, btw, would have looked like this:

$a = array (1,3,$b[11]);

Well, I can see true enough that that has the same meaning, but for me it's harder to read and interpret. I see the () first and start assuming it's a function, before my eyes and brain have time to digest that the name of the "function" is array -- result: a moment's confusion whilst I deal with the ambiguity of using function syntax for a language construct. With the [] syntax, I see the square brackets and they immediately shout ARRAY CONSTRUCTOR at me -- result: instant understanding and I'm on to the next line of code in a flash.

Cheers!

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Ford, Electronic Information Services Adviser, Learning Support Services, Learning & Information Services, JG125, James Graham Building, Leeds Metropolitan University, Beckett Park, LEEDS, LS6 3QS, United Kingdom Email: m.f@lmu.ac.uk Tel: +44 113 283 2600 extn 4730 Fax: +44 113 283 3211