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99 messages in net.php.lists.internalsRe: [PHP-DEV] Re: Short syntax for ar...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
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| Stan Vassilev | FM | May 21, 2008 7:12 pm | |
| Felipe Pena | May 21, 2008 7:20 pm | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 21, 2008 8:53 pm | |
| Pierre Joye | May 22, 2008 2:46 am | |
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| Johannes Schlüter | May 22, 2008 6:56 am | |
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| Sebastian Deutsch | May 27, 2008 1:53 pm | |
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| Stanislav Malyshev | May 27, 2008 4:10 pm | |
| Jani Taskinen | May 27, 2008 4:14 pm | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 27, 2008 4:18 pm | |
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| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 27, 2008 5:27 pm | |
| Andrei Zmievski | May 27, 2008 5:48 pm | |
| Sebastian Deutsch | May 27, 2008 6:09 pm | |
| Greg Beaver | May 27, 2008 7:43 pm | |
| Philip Olson | May 27, 2008 8:45 pm | |
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| Stanislav Malyshev | May 27, 2008 11:25 pm | |
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| Derick Rethans | May 27, 2008 11:31 pm | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 27, 2008 11:43 pm | |
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| Antony Dovgal | May 28, 2008 12:32 am | |
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| Antony Dovgal | May 28, 2008 12:41 am | |
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| Lukas Kahwe Smith | May 28, 2008 1:43 am | |
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| Stan Vassilev | FM | May 28, 2008 2:34 am | |
| Jon L. | May 28, 2008 2:35 am | |
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| Lokrain | May 28, 2008 2:58 am | |
| Felipe Pena | May 28, 2008 4:27 am | |
| Ford, Mike | May 28, 2008 4:34 am | |
| Greg Beaver | May 28, 2008 4:57 am | |
| Richard Quadling | May 28, 2008 6:13 am | |
| Brian Moon | May 28, 2008 8:20 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | May 28, 2008 8:28 am | |
| Andi Gutmans | May 28, 2008 8:28 am | |
| Chris Stockton | May 28, 2008 8:56 am | |
| Mike | May 28, 2008 10:10 am | |
| Jani Taskinen | May 28, 2008 10:25 am | |
| Chris Stockton | May 28, 2008 10:54 am | |
| Brian Moon | May 28, 2008 11:06 am | |
| Jared Williams | May 28, 2008 11:30 am | |
| Gregory Beaver | May 28, 2008 12:11 pm | |
| Pierre Joye | May 28, 2008 12:32 pm | |
| Chris Stockton | May 28, 2008 12:43 pm | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 28, 2008 1:06 pm | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 28, 2008 1:16 pm | |
| Rasmus Lerdorf | May 28, 2008 9:31 pm | |
| Derick Rethans | May 29, 2008 3:56 am | |
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| Pierre Joye | May 29, 2008 4:10 am | |
| Marcus Boerger | May 29, 2008 5:48 am | |
| Brian Moon | May 29, 2008 7:54 am | |
| Jonathan Bond-Caron | May 29, 2008 8:02 am | |
| Sebastian Deutsch | May 29, 2008 9:13 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 29, 2008 11:55 am | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 29, 2008 12:05 pm | |
| Chris Stockton | May 29, 2008 1:32 pm | |
| Johannes Schlüter | May 29, 2008 2:44 pm | |
| Jani Taskinen | May 29, 2008 3:06 pm | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 29, 2008 4:03 pm | |
| Lester Caine | May 30, 2008 12:04 am | |
| Pierre Joye | May 30, 2008 2:00 am | |
| Sebastian Deutsch | May 30, 2008 8:19 am | |
| Philip Olson | May 30, 2008 9:14 am | |
| Sebastian Deutsch | May 30, 2008 9:23 am | |
| Lars Strojny | May 31, 2008 5:27 am | |
| Hans Åhlin | May 31, 2008 6:17 am | |
| Hans Åhlin | May 31, 2008 6:26 am | |
| Hans Åhlin | May 31, 2008 6:38 am | |
| Chris Stockton | May 31, 2008 8:42 am | |
| Sebastian Deutsch | May 31, 2008 8:42 am | |
| Lars Strojny | May 31, 2008 9:33 am | |
| Stanislav Malyshev | May 31, 2008 10:45 pm | |
| Marcin Kurzyna | Jun 1, 2008 5:23 am | |
| Rodrigo Saboya | Jun 2, 2008 12:29 pm |

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| Subject: | Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Short syntax for array literals [...] | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Jani Taskinen (jani...@sci.fi) | |
| Date: | May 28, 2008 10:25:34 am | |
| List: | net.php.lists.internals | |
Exactly. Open this can of worms and soon PHP is something else than easy to learn.. someone already mentioned that {} thing for objects.. :)
Sidenote: There are more important things to solve in PHP 5.3 (and especially HEAD) than adding this little syntax sugar..
--Jani
Mike wrote:
In my opinion I don't think PHP would be where it is today if it wasn't for being so easy to learn and use.
I attribute this directly to the fact that it didn't use a lot of "syntax sugar" that is unreadable and can't be "Googled" for. You can't Google "[]", and my guess is searching PHP.net for "[]" won't return anything useful either.
Using Array() is SELF EXPLANATORY! Anyone can see that, search Google for "Array" and learn something about it.
How many man hours are going to be wasted: 1. Searching for what the heck [] actually is. 2. Explaining to people that [] is the same as Array. 3. Changing coding standards for projects to prevent [] from being used. 4. Enforcing coding standards for projects to prevent [] from being used. 5. Trying to change [] back to Array in hopes of getting code to work on older versions of PHP. 6. All the man hours wasted on it ALREADY that I'm sure could be much better spent getting PHP 5.3/6.0 out.
There are enough roadblocks and other things to worry about already, why would we want to add MORE? Especially for something with so little to gain (if anything at all).
This isn't about "well if you don't like it, don't use it" either, because no matter what it will be forced on people who don't like it eventually. People who like it will be constantly changing Array() -> [] and people who hate it will be constantly changing [] -> Array(). More wasted time.
Just my two cents.
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 08:56 -0700, Chris Stockton wrote:
+1 for: ['foo' => 'bar'], Not sure if it was decided but -1 for ['foo': 'bar']
Here is why,
Array(), is much more confusing to someone coming with no experience in php then []. Array() in most languages looks like a function call. So Array('foo' => 'bar'), verse ['foo' => 'bar'], most people will more easily understand the latter when entering into the language fresh.
I.E.: $f = Array('foo' => 'bar'); $f('foo'); // comes to mind first right, might not for a php developer but for a new comer maybe?
$f = ['foo' => 'bar']; $f['foo']; // great
Gives our users options, and does not break any existing code or enforce new programming paradigm. The change is minor and no real cost in performance.
As for existing users, I find the completely negative comments a real hindrance on the evolution of php as a language. If something does not damage the language but will offer benefits for a broad user base, as well as existing code, then let it be. I for one will change every line of code I have that uses the Array() syntax for the shorter, more WIDELY readable [] syntax.
My only curiosity is if this will turn into a ecmascript morphism and we wind up with a new object proposal instead of stdclass, like
$oStd = {'foo' => 'bar'}; echo $oStd->foo;
... doesn't even look all that bad but feels wrong and dirty, I think I would rather (object) ['foo' => 'bar']; :p
-Chris
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