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62 messages in org.codehaus.groovy.devRe: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: ...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 2:09 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 2:37 am | |
| Alexandru Popescu ☀ | Feb 19, 2008 2:57 am | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 3:03 am | |
| Patric Bechtel | Feb 19, 2008 3:12 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 3:25 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 3:26 am | |
| Patric Bechtel | Feb 19, 2008 5:05 am | |
| Gavin Grover | Feb 19, 2008 5:51 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 5:52 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 5:54 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 19, 2008 6:26 am | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 6:28 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 6:35 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 19, 2008 7:03 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 7:38 am | |
| Chanwit Kaewkasi | Feb 19, 2008 7:52 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 19, 2008 8:49 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 10:03 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 19, 2008 11:38 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 12:11 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 12:39 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 12:48 pm | |
| tugwilson | Feb 19, 2008 1:36 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 8:51 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 20, 2008 2:10 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 20, 2008 9:46 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 20, 2008 5:25 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 1:35 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 21, 2008 4:15 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 5:44 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 21, 2008 6:22 am | |
| Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMA | Feb 21, 2008 6:34 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 6:43 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 6:48 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 7:04 am | |
| Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMA | Feb 21, 2008 7:18 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 21, 2008 7:38 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 7:42 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 8:36 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 8:48 am | |
| Pascal DeMilly | Feb 21, 2008 5:35 pm | |
| Gavin Grover | Feb 21, 2008 6:21 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 22, 2008 4:31 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 22, 2008 4:49 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 22, 2008 11:43 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 23, 2008 12:28 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 23, 2008 3:51 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 23, 2008 2:49 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 23, 2008 2:53 pm | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 24, 2008 2:01 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 24, 2008 3:56 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 24, 2008 4:11 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 24, 2008 5:12 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 24, 2008 3:17 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 24, 2008 3:31 pm | |
| Alexandru Popescu ☀ | Feb 24, 2008 3:36 pm | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 26, 2008 2:20 pm | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 26, 2008 3:15 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 27, 2008 2:38 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 27, 2008 3:03 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Mar 2, 2008 5:21 pm |

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| Subject: | Re: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: what to do | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Martin C. Martin (mar...@martincmartin.com) | |
| Date: | Feb 24, 2008 3:56:13 am | |
| List: | org.codehaus.groovy.dev | |
Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
Excellent summary of the problems with this proposal. I have some comments below.
Jochen Theodorou wrote:
Groovy has atm dynamic typing. Any change with a fast mode goals a more or less static system, which is a major change for such a language. There is either version 2, which will mean you can not mix dynamic typed parts and static typed parts in the same area and there is version 3 which allows that, but will also give not many hints when it will do static and when it will do dynamic typing.
This is exactly what worried me. Because static typing goes through an entirely different mechanism, it would be both confusing and problematic for users. This is further complicated by the many users that would try to take their Groovy code and "make it faster" by adding static types. Suddenly dispatch rules would be completely different, and the code would break.
Actually, we have static typing in Groovy:
def foo (String s) {1} def foo (Object o) {2}
String a = "test" Object b = a def c = a def d = b
// with Groovy style static typing assert foo(a) == 1 assert foo((Object)b) == 2 assert foo(c) == 2 assert foo((Object)d) == 2
Which suggests two questions:
1. Since this has been in there for a while and hasn't caused problems in existing code bases, would allowing a different syntax for the same thing cause problems? Right now we can say "in this particular use, treat variable X as class C, even if it's of a class derived from C." The proposed change would say "wherever this variable is used, treat it as class C." That means the declaration which determines the semantics is removed from where its used, but that's no different from any other declaration. For example, "a = 23" can fail if a is of type, say, Map. And that declaration could be far away from the assignment line, but people seem to handle that alright.
2. Could we use the existing syntax to do more at compile time and less at runtime? I think the answer at the moment is "no," because the types are just given to the metaclass, and in general its an uncomputable problem to tell what the metaclass will be at compile time.
But what if the programmer could annotate a class to say "all instances of a given class use the same metaclass," and then have a way for the metaclass to tell the compiler when a method could be determined at compile time?
For example, if the Metaclass has a resolveMethod() method, then at compile time we could instantiate the Metaclass with a no-arg constructor and call resolveMethod() with the given types. If it returns a method, we could insert that call directly. If it returns None, we go back to inserting the normal ScriptBytecodeAdapter.invokeMethod() call.
What do people think?
Best, Martin
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