73 messages in com.googlegroups.android-challengeRe: Question/Poll for the Community: ...
FromSent OnAttachments
Dan Morrill21 Jan 2008 17:04 
Dan U.21 Jan 2008 17:26 
Shane Isbell23 Jan 2008 11:17 
ajd23 Jan 2008 11:52 
mickrobk23 Jan 2008 12:07 
Shane Isbell23 Jan 2008 12:23 
Dan U.23 Jan 2008 12:42 
Shane Isbell23 Jan 2008 12:48 
Dan U.23 Jan 2008 13:07 
Shane Isbell23 Jan 2008 13:12 
Shane Isbell23 Jan 2008 13:16 
Dan U.23 Jan 2008 13:19 
Ecthelion23 Jan 2008 14:26 
ajd23 Jan 2008 15:06 
Dan U.23 Jan 2008 15:13 
cirion23 Jan 2008 15:29 
AMGG23 Jan 2008 16:12 
Gil23 Jan 2008 16:28 
cuteandroid23 Jan 2008 19:59 
Marc23 Jan 2008 20:10 
klakkara23 Jan 2008 20:53 
John23 Jan 2008 23:07 
Rajesh Battala23 Jan 2008 23:09 
Peli24 Jan 2008 01:16 
Peli24 Jan 2008 01:29 
Alex Pisarev24 Jan 2008 07:35 
Zorg24 Jan 2008 07:44 
Shane Isbell24 Jan 2008 07:48 
planner24 Jan 2008 10:10 
planner24 Jan 2008 10:14 
Dan U.24 Jan 2008 11:00 
jtaylor24 Jan 2008 22:12 
xtrawurst24 Jan 2008 23:38 
max24 Jan 2008 23:51 
vetch25 Jan 2008 02:15 
Anil25 Jan 2008 07:53 
jjersin25 Jan 2008 11:39 
Laszlo Antal25 Jan 2008 13:20 
jtaylor26 Jan 2008 10:20 
luke26 Jan 2008 18:16 
Pedro26 Jan 2008 18:51 
acopernicus26 Jan 2008 18:51 
Emak26 Jan 2008 21:19 
hais...@gmail.com27 Jan 2008 06:24 
Shooter27 Jan 2008 11:16 
vetch28 Jan 2008 00:58 
barbapapaz28 Jan 2008 01:57 
luke28 Jan 2008 03:53 
cowgirl28 Jan 2008 08:28 
Cow Bay28 Jan 2008 11:46 
ajd28 Jan 2008 12:11 
Shane Isbell28 Jan 2008 12:17 
Cow Bay28 Jan 2008 12:18 
Cow Bay28 Jan 2008 12:23 
Shane Isbell28 Jan 2008 12:53 
tomgibara28 Jan 2008 14:09 
Peli29 Jan 2008 02:13 
Zorg29 Jan 2008 03:00 
Peli29 Jan 2008 03:53 
tomgibara29 Jan 2008 03:53 
hais...@gmail.com29 Jan 2008 04:28 
Zorg29 Jan 2008 05:09 
Peli29 Jan 2008 06:29 
jtaylor29 Jan 2008 16:05 
Peli29 Jan 2008 22:26 
Hong03 Feb 2008 20:51 
Dan U.03 Feb 2008 21:01 
Hong03 Feb 2008 21:08 
xtrawurst03 Feb 2008 22:02 
Dan U.03 Feb 2008 22:16 
vlad...@gmail.com03 Feb 2008 22:32 
Dan U.03 Feb 2008 22:52 
Peli04 Feb 2008 23:40 
Subject:Re: Question/Poll for the Community: Extend Deadline?
From:ajd (domi@yahoo.com)
Date:01/23/2008 03:06:49 PM
List:com.googlegroups.android-challenge

Main motivation? What else but the prize. Firstly, be aware that we are developing applications whose value is only for this particular contest. Where else will our android applications have value? There are no phones available yet where they can run. You cannot rely on the future. There will always be uncertainty even for big companies like Google. Who knows for sure if these phones will really come out. Secondly, if not for the prize, why join this contest? If not only for the prize, then you can just continue developing and not submit your application, no worries about the deadline. Why pursue beating the deadline or extending the deadline? It does not matter, right? The truth is that some wants to extend the deadline so they can join the contest and win, guess for what, for the prize.

On Jan 23, 1:42 pm, "Dan U." <dan.@gmail.com> wrote:

For me, the prize is the main motivation. Had it not been there, I would not be working with Android. I am trying to figure out what happens after the competition, but my guess is that I'll be done and the big players take over.

I don't mean to be too off topic here, but a lot of people who want the extension seem to cite their jobs as a reason. How many people have actually checked with their companies to make sure taking part in this competition is actually ok? What little I know about IP law suggests to me that the company you work for may have claims to your submission.

On Jan 23, 12:23 pm, "Shane Isbell" <shan@gmail.com> wrote:

Fair enough. I'll grant that Rob and adj have some well reasoned arguments on the side of fairness, although I did know a chess player with a 2200 FIDE rating who lost to a 1500 player in a speed match. Sure it was fair, but who would you want to back in the long-term?

From the sounds of some of the arguments, I do have concerns that the prize is the motativation for working on Android. How many developers, I wonder, will persist after the first round is over? Maybe google should move up the deadline, so we can get all this behind us.

Shane

On Jan 23, 2008 12:07 PM, mickrobk <mick@gmail.com> wrote:

While your right in that there is self interest driving a lot of these posts, (mine too of course) that does not mean there is no fairness issue.

Your argument can be applied infinitely, there will always be people who just heard of the competition, and all the applications will be getting better as time passes, with no end.Yet, it would not be fair if the competition were to be moved back 2 years (I'm not suggesting that google will actually do this, it's purely hypothetical). Why is that?  Several people have already brought these points, I'm just reiterating.

1. Peli put this well, but the money issue. Unless Google also increases the prize money, it means we will be doing more work for the same amount of money (probabilistic expected return, actually less, since more applications will be entered) Economically, an extension is the same as google cutting the prize money, would this be fair? 2. Developers made economic decisions as to how much time they could put into this competition, I know I've missed freelance jobs as I wanted to put time towards my android application and was under time pressure. I've planned and developed based on a time frame with a distinct and hard end, I don't think my girlfriend would be happy if I spend another month ignoring her to work on the application for less reward. Arguments that I can just leave my application for the extra month don't make sense as that again greatly decreases my chances and therefore the value of the work I've already done. Yes its a prize based competition with no garentuee of reward, but if there were no money, there would certainly not be as many developers, it obviously means something. Assuming 5,000,000 in reward, and a 1/1200 chance of winning (hopefully less :) but probably not significatly more). I can expect to make about 4,000 from participating in this competition. With another month of work and more applications, this decreases while my hours spent increase. I'm not happy about my hourly worth being retroactively decreased. 3. What is fairness except for for the idea that people are gaining advantage, unbalancing the game?

The main point here is that my expected salary is being decreased retroactively, and it forces me to either decide to walk away from any potential reimbursement or to continue working for the lowered rate. I also completely agree with tomgibara. Weekend developers (like me) or even people just entering are not gaining an advantage here, but losing it.

There is a second competition, I'm planning to enter it with a few new applications I'm just starting. While my current application could use more time, I don't want it, if it's not finished thats that, and it will be good for the next one; I don't expect it to be at 100%, or even 70, it's a large scope, hopefully the judges will still be able to get an idea of it's potential, they are giving out grants to fund further development after all.

An extra 2 days announces on March 1 I would like, but definitely not another week.

I appreciate being asked, Rob

On Jan 23, 12:17 pm, "Shane Isbell" <shan@gmail.com> wrote:

I pondered the same question. I don't mind that many people don't want to bump the deadline, but using the fairness argument strikes me as strange. What I gather is that some developers who entered the contest early don't think it is fair that other developers, who are entering late or who have more ambitious ideas, could edge them out of the prize. So it's a simple issue. Changing the rules puts some developers at a disadvantage: "not fair".

Of course, the same argument could be leveled by those who do have better ideas but not the time. They could say it's not fair that mediocre applications win, just because the developers entered the competition a couple of months earlier. Really is has nothing to do with fairness, just advantage. But for most developers, it won't matter anyway, they won't get the prize and even a number of those that do will get squashed flat by the big players, many of whom will enter quite late: not fair!

Shane On Jan 23, 2008 10:55 AM, ? <kyar@gmail.com> wrote:

whether to extend the time or not is ok to me, but i am some confused with the "theory of fairness".

during any possible extension, everybody can choose to take a rest or to keep polishing work for more scores.

so, i would like to weakly+weakly question where the fairness comes from :?

----- Original Message -----  > > From: "ian" <shen@gmail.com> To: "Android Challenge" <andr@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:20 PM Subject: [android-challenge] Re: Question/Poll for the Community: Extend Deadline?

 > Thank you Dan for the proposal.

Once the game has started more than half way, it is not good or fair to change the rules. Developers have made decision and strategy based on the rules and best targeted at the given time.  I'm against it but it is always welcome if Google would set up another $? contest for the developers that would come up with master pieces later.- Hide quoted text -

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