107 messages in org.apache.communityRe: Rules for Revolutionaries
FromSent OnAttachments
Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 11:08 
Vadim Gritsenko04 Nov 2002 12:46 
Rodent of Unusual Size04 Nov 2002 13:09 
John Keyes04 Nov 2002 15:25 
Sam Ruby04 Nov 2002 16:33 
Rodent of Unusual Size05 Nov 2002 17:37 
Peter Donald05 Nov 2002 18:25 
Costin Manolache05 Nov 2002 19:33 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:27 
Aaron Bannert05 Nov 2002 21:29 
Ted Husted06 Nov 2002 05:14 
Rodent of Unusual Size06 Nov 2002 18:54 
Daniel Rall06 Nov 2002 22:11 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 03:43 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 04:11 
Ted Husted07 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi07 Nov 2002 05:33 
Sam Ruby07 Nov 2002 08:01 
Rodent of Unusual Size07 Nov 2002 09:27 
Costin Manolache07 Nov 2002 12:39 
Rich Bowen08 Nov 2002 04:35 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 09:06 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 13:49 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 14:04 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 14:46 
Costin Manolache08 Nov 2002 15:11 
Stefano Mazzocchi08 Nov 2002 15:48 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 16:02 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 16:56 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 17:02 
Martin van den Bemt08 Nov 2002 17:13 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:48 
Rodent of Unusual Size08 Nov 2002 17:50 
James Taylor08 Nov 2002 17:56 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 17:57 
Craig R. McClanahan08 Nov 2002 18:04 
Sam Ruby08 Nov 2002 18:16 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:37 
Andrew C. Oliver08 Nov 2002 18:40 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 00:29 
Jeff Turner09 Nov 2002 02:44 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 03:26 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:13 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:25 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:27 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:31 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:35 
Andrew C. Oliver09 Nov 2002 04:36 
Danny Angus09 Nov 2002 04:39 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 04:50 
Martin van den Bemt09 Nov 2002 05:21 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 06:28 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 08:49 
Sam Ruby09 Nov 2002 09:29 
Costin Manolache09 Nov 2002 10:23 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:49 
Ceki Gülcü09 Nov 2002 10:58 
Stefano Mazzocchi09 Nov 2002 12:32 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:29 
James Duncan Davidson09 Nov 2002 15:37 
Chuck Murcko09 Nov 2002 18:07 
Rodent of Unusual Size10 Nov 2002 05:29 
Ceki Gülcü10 Nov 2002 06:21 
James Duncan Davidson10 Nov 2002 09:14 
Stefano Mazzocchi11 Nov 2002 19:05 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:26 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 19:41 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 19:42 
Stephen McConnell11 Nov 2002 19:43 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:34 
Ovidiu Predescu11 Nov 2002 21:35 
Sam Ruby11 Nov 2002 21:50 
Jeff Turner11 Nov 2002 23:17 
34 later messages
Subject:Re: Rules for Revolutionaries
From:Sam Ruby (rub@apache.org)
Date:11/08/2002 01:49:45 PM
List:org.apache.community

Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

my curiousity has been set off again. there have been numerous mentions of the revolution concept as used in jakarta, and its widespread acceptance as policy. however, i don't see it mentioned in the jakarta guidelines; in fact, only in ted's proposal for new guidelines.

is jakarta's semi-formal acceptance of it as an operating principle actually recorded anywhere, or is it actually just an 'everybody knows that' informal general acceptance?

"general acceptance" is probably too strong a word. There are some, including apparently the original author, who now have doubts. But there can be no doubt that this document has strongly influenced the evolution of a number of Jakarta projects.

For further reading, I'd recommend taking a look at topics 3 and 4 in http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html

In my mind, the concepts of vetoes, revolutions, and releases being a majority decision are linked. Note: when Roy made the statement about releases, it sure sounded to me like he was stating it as if it were ASF policy. In any case, I would recommend that it be so.

Taken together, provisions are made for individuals to get attention to be focused on issues that they feel are important, individuals or even small groups can flesh out concepts that may initially be controversial, and a safety valve is provided so that forward progress can still be made.

- Sam Ruby