atom feed55 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-currentRe: entropy reseeding is totally broken
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Андрей ЧерновOct 19, 2000 9:48 pm 
Udo SchweigertOct 19, 2000 10:57 pm 
Андрей ЧерновOct 19, 2000 11:39 pm 
Андрей ЧерновOct 19, 2000 11:51 pm 
Doug BartonOct 20, 2000 1:18 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 20, 2000 9:27 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 20, 2000 9:43 am 
Mark MurrayOct 20, 2000 10:06 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 20, 2000 1:13 pm 
Warner LoshOct 24, 2000 11:15 am 
Terry LambertOct 25, 2000 3:35 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 25, 2000 3:50 am 
Mark MurrayOct 25, 2000 10:37 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 25, 2000 11:12 am 
Wesley MorganOct 25, 2000 2:15 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 25, 2000 3:12 pm 
John W. De BoskeyOct 25, 2000 4:20 pm 
Wesley MorganOct 25, 2000 4:50 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 25, 2000 5:01 pm 
Doug BartonOct 25, 2000 9:28 pm 
Ed HallOct 26, 2000 12:30 am 
David O'BrienOct 26, 2000 12:50 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 26, 2000 1:47 am 
Kris KennawayOct 26, 2000 2:17 am 
Kris KennawayOct 26, 2000 2:21 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 26, 2000 2:54 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 26, 2000 3:01 am 
Rod TaylorOct 26, 2000 3:30 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 26, 2000 3:34 am 
Jordan HubbardOct 26, 2000 5:20 am 
John W. De BoskeyOct 26, 2000 6:24 am 
Matt DillonOct 26, 2000 9:55 am 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 10:06 am 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 10:17 am 
John BaldwinOct 26, 2000 11:06 am 
Андрей ЧерновOct 26, 2000 11:36 am 
Terry LambertOct 26, 2000 12:04 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 12:39 pm 
Doug BartonOct 26, 2000 12:49 pm 
David O'BrienOct 26, 2000 1:26 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 1:29 pm 
Matt DillonOct 26, 2000 1:47 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 2:02 pm 
Ed HallOct 26, 2000 2:03 pm 
Matt DillonOct 26, 2000 2:25 pm 
Doug BartonOct 26, 2000 2:44 pm 
Poul-Henning KampOct 26, 2000 2:51 pm 
Wesley MorganOct 26, 2000 3:07 pm 
David O'BrienOct 26, 2000 3:15 pm 
Poul-Henning KampOct 26, 2000 3:18 pm 
Jim BryantOct 26, 2000 3:29 pm 
Mark MurrayOct 26, 2000 3:56 pm 
Doug BartonOct 26, 2000 9:00 pm 
Terry LambertOct 27, 2000 5:19 pm 
Doug BartonOct 27, 2000 7:18 pm 
Subject:Re: entropy reseeding is totally broken
From:Jordan Hubbard (jk@winston.osd.bsdi.com)
Date:Oct 26, 2000 5:20:50 am
List:org.freebsd.freebsd-current

The issue is one of seeding the device strongly. If all you care about is getting a different fortune when you boot then seeding with e.g. the system boot time would be enough, but obviously it doesnt make /dev/random cryptographically secure.

I think there's a more general point being made here - if we're not seeding /dev/random effectively at startup, fortune is the least of our worries since all the other startup services will be unrandom as well.

This situation I see with /dev/random is kind of disturbing since I think we're running the danger of falling into the following all-too-common scenario in engineering:

1) Person X falls in love with a new algorithm or technique and implements it in a fairly key service with quite a few rough edges.

2) The users fail to embrace this new technology all that fervently since those same rough edges make it a promising but annoying or downright non-functional implementation.

3) Person X vigorously defends himself and/or the algorithm since he knows it's really a much better thing in the long run and simply needs "tweaking" to make it fully work.

4) The users see this as an attempt to cram broken bits down their throats and just as vigorously fight back against what they see as someone's fancy solution in search of a problem to solve.

5) Constructive dialog breaks down and it all turns into an exchange of increasingly irritated words as each side feels the other isn't hearing what it's trying to say or appreciating the bigger pictures.

Let's try not to go there with /dev/random, please. :)

- Jordan

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