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83 messages in org.w3.www-tagRe: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Meth...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Dan Connolly | Apr 15, 2002 8:50 am | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 15, 2002 1:44 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 3:01 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 3:19 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 15, 2002 8:00 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 15, 2002 8:37 pm | |
| Scott Cantor | Apr 15, 2002 9:28 pm | |
| Edwin Khodabakchian | Apr 15, 2002 9:34 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 10:18 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 15, 2002 11:17 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 15, 2002 11:32 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 1:01 am | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 16, 2002 1:02 am | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 1:09 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 2:11 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 3:02 am | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 16, 2002 4:54 am | |
| Williams, Stuart | Apr 16, 2002 8:22 am | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 16, 2002 8:32 am | |
| jon...@research.att.com | Apr 16, 2002 8:44 am | |
| Scott Cantor | Apr 16, 2002 8:55 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 9:40 am | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 9:42 am | |
| Hutchison, Nigel | Apr 16, 2002 9:43 am | |
| Henrik Frystyk Nielsen | Apr 16, 2002 10:48 am | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 16, 2002 1:46 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 16, 2002 6:39 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 16, 2002 7:54 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 16, 2002 10:10 pm | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 17, 2002 1:54 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 12:33 am | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 18, 2002 9:11 am | |
| Alex Rousskov | Apr 18, 2002 9:30 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 9:45 am | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 18, 2002 11:58 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 18, 2002 3:11 pm | |
| Don Box | Apr 18, 2002 6:28 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 18, 2002 8:50 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 18, 2002 8:54 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 10:00 pm | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 19, 2002 12:53 am | |
| Bill de hÓra | Apr 19, 2002 4:18 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 19, 2002 1:20 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 22, 2002 3:23 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 22, 2002 4:01 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 22, 2002 8:17 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 22, 2002 10:21 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 23, 2002 5:36 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 12:03 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 2:09 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 23, 2002 2:14 pm | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 2:53 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 23, 2002 4:14 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 23, 2002 5:05 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 23, 2002 5:14 pm | |
| Simon St.Laurent | Apr 23, 2002 5:18 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 23, 2002 6:31 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 23, 2002 6:36 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 8:03 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 23, 2002 8:30 pm | |
| Dan Connolly | Apr 23, 2002 9:05 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 9:10 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 23, 2002 9:28 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 9:42 pm | |
| Jeff Bone | Apr 23, 2002 9:42 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:02 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 10:05 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:27 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:38 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 10:57 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 11:16 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 11:20 pm | |
| Dan Connolly | Apr 23, 2002 11:23 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 23, 2002 11:56 pm | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 24, 2002 7:23 am | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 24, 2002 8:47 am | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 24, 2002 10:46 am | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am | |
| Aaron Swartz | Apr 24, 2002 11:27 am | |
| Mike Dierken | Apr 24, 2002 12:06 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 25, 2002 10:54 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | May 5, 2002 3:38 am |
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| Subject: | Re: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7) | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Edwin Khodabakchian (edw...@collaxa.com) | |
| Date: | Apr 15, 2002 9:34:06 pm | |
| List: | org.w3.www-tag | |
Keith,
Here is a link to an interesting presentation from Roy T. Fielding regarding the evolution of various architectural styles: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/talks/webarch_9805/index.htm
I think that there are 4 important points that have been highlighted in this discussion: - we need to acknowledge the fact that we are solving a new class of problem that is more about machine-to-machine communication.
- we need to make sure that the adopted architecture style is developer friendly because at the end of the day developers will be the ones who program web services (not user agents).
- we need to overcome the fact that APIs/RPC are difficult to compose in a reliable and adaptable fashion and they do not represent information very well.
- we need to learn as much as possible from the strength and weaknesses of previous architectural styles.
The solution is not obvious but I think that going back to the basic API based client server model would probably end up resulting in a failure. We need a model that can scale, represent information well and adapt reliably to continous change.
Edwin
-----Original Message----- From: www-...@w3.org [mailto:www-...@w3.org] On Behalf Of Keith Moore Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:38 PM To: www-...@w3.org Cc: David Orchard; www-...@w3.org; xml-...@w3.org Subject: Re: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7)
It is a common misconception by Web services proponents that HTTP is nothing more than a transport protocol which moves bits from A to B, where A is typically a web server, and B is typically a Web browser. It should come as no surprise that because of this view, it is felt that HTTP and the architectural style that describes it (REST) is insufficient for program to program communication. This could not be further from the truth.
Anything that can be done with other architectural styles, such as message passing, RPC, tuple spaces, etc.. can also be accomplished with REST. It just has to be done in a different way. The common use
of Web services, upon which you are bumping up against with this complaint, is not REST and is not the Web. It is attempting to use a different architectural style, RPC (or some derivative), that has repeatedly demonstrated its inability to be deployed on the Internet (ONC, CORBA, DCOM, RMI).
my guess is that lots of people will continue to treat HTTP as an RPC mechanism no matter what architecture you promote. for that reason alone it's silly to claim that RPC has not demonstrated the ability to be deployed - HTTP as it is often used is a wildly successful (in terms of amount of deployment) realization of RPC. the RPC paradigm
is more familiar to most programmers than REST, and it's probably easier to understand than REST, and it will be difficult to overcome that inertia.
Keith