atom feed28 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.business-transactionRE: Open-top coordinators and protocol
FromSent OnAttachments
Alastair GreenMay 24, 2001 9:01 am.doc
Savas ParastatidisMay 24, 2001 6:45 pm 
Mark LittleMay 25, 2001 2:44 am 
Alastair GreenMay 25, 2001 3:03 am 
Peter FurnissMay 25, 2001 3:31 am 
Mark LittleMay 25, 2001 3:54 am 
Mark LittleMay 25, 2001 4:14 am 
Savas ParastatidisMay 25, 2001 6:55 pm 
Savas ParastatidisMay 25, 2001 7:10 pm 
Savas ParastatidisMay 25, 2001 7:20 pm 
Alastair GreenMay 29, 2001 7:39 am 
Savas ParastatidisMay 29, 2001 9:02 am 
Pal Takacsi-NagyMay 29, 2001 10:40 am 
Mark LittleMay 29, 2001 12:47 pm 
Mark LittleMay 29, 2001 1:01 pm 
Alastair GreenMay 29, 2001 1:26 pm 
Alastair GreenMay 29, 2001 3:09 pm 
Sazi TemelMay 29, 2001 6:26 pm 
Sazi TemelMay 29, 2001 6:45 pm 
Mark LittleMay 30, 2001 2:08 am 
Mark LittleMay 30, 2001 2:08 am 
Alastair GreenMay 30, 2001 6:12 am 
Mark LittleMay 30, 2001 9:01 am 
Peter FurnissMay 30, 2001 10:45 am 
Mark LittleMay 30, 2001 1:51 pm 
Mark LittleMay 30, 2001 2:33 pm 
Alastair GreenMay 31, 2001 8:11 am 
Mark LittleMay 31, 2001 8:50 am 
Subject:RE: Open-top coordinators and protocol
From:Savas Parastatidis (sav@arjuna.com)
Date:May 25, 2001 7:10:09 pm
List:org.oasis-open.lists.business-transaction

Peter,

Please refer to my reply to Alastair for my most recent comments on the discussion. Only a very few comments on this message.

[... deleted ...]

If my understanding of Alastair's proposal is correct, the sendApplicationMessage() and prepare() calls should be replaced with a sendApplicationMessageAndAllowPrepare() single call. This will

result to

Not quite - you still need the prepare() (or equivalent) on the atom coordinator, to induce the coordinator to report on the combined vote for the whole atom.

Yeap. I agree.

There is then a separate question as to whether the indication that the messages are complete should be in a BTP-defined construct or left to the application. This is hard to give a firm answer on, but I inclinde to a BTP-defined construct. This makes it easy to BTP-ise an application exchange that does not itself have the concept of packaging its requests into groups, without requiring additions to the application messages in an ad-hoc manner.

I am tempted to move the responsibility for such optimisations to the application level rather than adding to the protocol level. Please, refer to my previous message for more details.

(arguably an application X + BTP isn't quite the same protocol as X alone and doing so does add messages (the btp allow-vote) to the application messages, but the advantage is that you can do exactly the same thing for Y+BTP, Z+BTP etc). A midway position is to have a BTP-defined "allow-prepare" but also permit voting at any point (used with different applications) - this is truly implicit prepare, but if a service+participant believes it can vote, who are we to say it doesn't understand the application protocol.

We are not in disagreement on whether an implicit prepare is allowed but rather who is responsible for its initiation. I disagree that we should have an allow-prepare at the BTP-level. Again, refer to my previous message to Alastair.

atoms, if it needs to know distinctly "will this operation really work", it should ask the atom that includes it. It won't help it to know that the first involved participant is ok, if there is another (directly registered) participant it can't see lower down that will cause the operation to cancel.

Agreed. (I like this word :-)

Regards, .savas.