atom feed52 messages in uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcryptoRe: Demon & DeCSS
FromSent OnAttachments
Donald RamsbottomSep 20, 2000 11:55 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 6:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 21, 2000 8:16 am 
Neil DunbarSep 21, 2000 9:28 am 
Owen BlackerSep 21, 2000 10:46 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 21, 2000 11:10 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:29 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:41 am 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:25 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:30 pm 
Dave BirdSep 21, 2000 2:12 pm 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 12:52 am 
Paul LeylandSep 22, 2000 1:30 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 2:09 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:20 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:25 am 
Jon RibbensSep 22, 2000 3:45 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 3:56 am 
Charles LindseySep 22, 2000 4:05 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 4:20 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 4:55 am 
David SwarbrickSep 22, 2000 5:12 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 5:24 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 8:32 am 
Dave BirdSep 22, 2000 11:22 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 23, 2000 7:35 am 
Owen BlackerSep 23, 2000 8:24 am 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 3:25 pm 
Dave BirdSep 23, 2000 4:26 pm 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 4:38 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
Paul CrowleySep 24, 2000 11:07 am 
Richard WattsSep 25, 2000 3:53 am 
Charles LindseySep 25, 2000 7:09 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 10:40 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 1:13 pm 
Philip RowlandsSep 25, 2000 2:04 pm 
Dave BirdSep 25, 2000 7:35 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 11:04 pm 
Charles LindseySep 26, 2000 1:59 am 
Pete ChownSep 26, 2000 2:38 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:45 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 11:42 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 12:26 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
Jon RibbensSep 27, 2000 3:46 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 7:52 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 11:53 am 
Benjamin GeerSep 27, 2000 6:41 pm 
Subject:Re: Demon & DeCSS
From:David Howe (DHo@Hawkswing.demon.co.uk)
Date:Sep 22, 2000 4:20:40 am
List:uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcrypto

Jon Ribbens <jon+ukcr@unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:

All DeCSS does is exactly what the equipment inside a DVD player does, i.e. decrypt the data stream so that it can be displayed. If DeCSS is a DVD copying device, then so is the DVD player you have in your living room. (You could, after all, stick a video recorder on the DVD player's output.) The only relationship with copying is that you could use DeCSS to write the data stream out into another format, i.e. you could make an AVI file or somesuch of a DVD. But putting the DeCSS code into a player would allow you to play a raw DVD image file anyway, so writing it as another format would only be an issue of compatibility. DeCSS has nothing to do with copying. That people think it does is a triumph of expensive lawyers over actual facts.

DeCSS (or something like it) is essential if you want to copy the DVD movie to a different format. The important question is - why is this illegal? the usual test is that the device has a "substantial, non-infringing use" in which case the fact you *can* use it for something illegal becomes irrelevant - an example would be that cars can be used for ramraiding (and indeed, stolen cars are frequently used for such). This does not make a car a burgler's tool as it isn't the car's normal use. Trying to claim that DeCSS isn't used for copying at all (especially given the new rush of mpeg4/divx conversion tools that have mysteriously started doing the rounds, just at the right time to be used as an example) is not a good idea - all your opponent has to do in court is *themselves* make an illegal copy via DeCSS; showing a DVD movie in court, then removing the DVD drive entirely and showing an MPEG4 version claimed to be converted *using DeCSS* would blow that out of the water in pretty short order. The important thing to show is that DeCSS is not a tool particularly suited to piracy - It is not and cannot be used to make DVD copies of DVDs; it is not and would not be used to make VHS copies of DVDs (which would just have the killer signal disabled in a suitable standalone player and be taped directly from the output). DeCSS *directly competes* with authorised software players and standalone players, and a better viewpoint is that DeCSS is being pursued as an anticompetitive act, to protect their *licencing scheme* not the legally-permitted access to the works *you have already paid for* The latter point is the important one. You have *paid* for a copy of the copyrighted work. You have *paid* for a licenced DVD drive, and a licenced player (are there any DVD drives out there that don't come with one bundled?). It is any attempt to step outside of their nice, advertiser friendly, Region-code enforced sandbox that they are coming down on; It is a letter-perfect replay of their "case" against home VCRs, and I suspect even they know this is a rearguard action, but one worth doing, as every month they can stave off free competition is another month the revenue streams from the licencing continue to flow.