|50 earlier messages|
|Martin van den Bemt||Nov 9, 2002 5:21 am|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 9, 2002 6:28 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 9, 2002 8:49 am|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 9, 2002 9:29 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 9, 2002 10:23 am|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 9, 2002 10:49 am|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 9, 2002 10:58 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 9, 2002 12:32 pm|
|James Duncan Davidson||Nov 9, 2002 3:29 pm|
|James Duncan Davidson||Nov 9, 2002 3:37 pm|
|Chuck Murcko||Nov 9, 2002 6:07 pm|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 10, 2002 5:29 am|
|Ceki Gülcü||Nov 10, 2002 6:21 am|
|James Duncan Davidson||Nov 10, 2002 9:14 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 11, 2002 7:05 pm|
|Stephen McConnell||Nov 11, 2002 7:26 pm|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 11, 2002 7:41 pm|
|Jeff Turner||Nov 11, 2002 7:42 pm|
|Stephen McConnell||Nov 11, 2002 7:43 pm|
|Ovidiu Predescu||Nov 11, 2002 9:34 pm|
|Ovidiu Predescu||Nov 11, 2002 9:35 pm|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 11, 2002 9:50 pm|
|Jeff Turner||Nov 11, 2002 11:17 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 12, 2002 7:18 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 12, 2002 7:24 am|
|Martin van den Bemt||Nov 12, 2002 8:18 am|
|Joe Schaefer||Nov 12, 2002 8:19 am|
|Jeff Turner||Nov 12, 2002 8:20 am|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 12, 2002 8:28 am|
|Henri Yandell||Nov 12, 2002 8:41 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 12, 2002 9:57 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 12, 2002 10:14 am|
|Craig R. McClanahan||Nov 12, 2002 11:38 am|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 12, 2002 12:18 pm|
|Glenn Nielsen||Nov 12, 2002 7:04 pm|
|Stephen McConnell||Nov 13, 2002 2:23 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 3:49 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 3:55 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 4:02 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 4:20 am|
|Stephen McConnell||Nov 13, 2002 4:20 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 13, 2002 6:44 am|
|Joe Schaefer||Nov 13, 2002 7:37 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 8:49 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 13, 2002 10:01 am|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 10:15 am|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 13, 2002 11:16 am|
|Stefano Mazzocchi||Nov 13, 2002 11:44 am|
|Costin Manolache||Nov 13, 2002 12:10 pm|
|Rodent of Unusual Size||Nov 13, 2002 5:37 pm|
|Roy T. Fielding||Nov 14, 2002 9:54 am|
|Daniel Rall||Nov 15, 2002 2:44 pm|
|Sam Ruby||Nov 15, 2002 7:28 pm|
|Andrew C. Oliver||Nov 15, 2002 8:09 pm|
|Henri Gomez||Nov 18, 2002 9:56 am|
|Henri Gomez||Nov 18, 2002 10:00 am|
|Henri Gomez||Nov 18, 2002 11:26 pm|
|Subject:||Re: Rules for Revolutionaries|
|From:||Rodent of Unusual Size (Ken....@Golux.Com)|
|Date:||Nov 13, 2002 5:37:57 pm|
Costin Manolache wrote:
The fact that you as PMC chair have decided to not use this power is great. But the question if the chair has "benevolent dictator" power remains, and Ken's message ( and yours ) suggest that it's just a matter of "benevolence" - with no explicit restraints on the rules.
essentially, that's correct. the pmc doesn't own the code nor the brand; nor do the committers. it's the foundation that does. the 'benevolence' you seem to not want to trust is part of the officer's responsibilities. if a pmc chair acts irresponsibly ('power-mad') or otherwise seems to be departing from benevolence, the natural recourse is to the board -- which will either chastise, remove, or support the pmc chair, according to its (the board's) judgement of what best serves the project and its community without causing damage anywhere, within that project or elsewhere in the foundation.
any other modus operandi is contrary to the foundation's râison d'etre, so it makes no sense for it to ever be allowed.
My understanding so far was that the chair is bound by the project charter and rules. The project charter defines the release and voting rules.
it all comes down to ownership, because that includes power over the thing owned. note that the board can dissolve a project at any time by resolution, and there is no recourse. that is an example. the chair is bound by the pmc/project rules insofar as they do not conflict with its higher responsibility to the foundation. consider state versus federal law in the u.s.
In bylaws 6.3: "Each Project Management Committee shall be responsible for the active management of one or more projects"
and "The chairman of each Project Management Committee shall be primarily responsible for project(s) managed by such committee, and he or she shall establish rules and procedures for the day to day management of project(s) for which the committee is responsible"
Does it means the rules are subject to change at any time ? ( i.e. can the chair add rules whenever he sees a need ) I also think many people have the wrong impression that the PMC can establish the rules - where it's the chair ( of course the benevolent chair will ask the PMC for its opinion - but without being required to do so )
essentially, yes. it's so wonderful that you keep pointing out the worst-case scenario. :-) abuse of power by a chair will damage the community, and therefore the foundation, and so it will either not happen, or be speedily addressed when it is brought to the attention of the board.
Given that projects are creating their own PMCs, I think it is quite important for people to know this.
exactly why i am taking such pains to spell it out. as i have said.
I think it would be very useful for the community to know and understand all the rules that are involved, which doesn't seem the case.
there is no instant know-it-all button, costin. the bylaws define the iron boundaries. many portions of them have not, and will not, come up for interpretation until a specific instance or scenario activates them. this discussion is just such a triggering factor.
In my perception the fact that many of the people involved in apache are not aware of all the rules and their consequences is one of the biggest problems.
again, as i have said, this is one of the reasons i am going into such detail.
If the interpretation that the chair has the power to change the rules at any time or is above the rules explicitly defined in the project charter is right, I think it can be a problem. ( not for jakarta - but for other projects who may not be lucky to have you or someone like you as chair )
see above. if that happens, there is recourse, and it will be handled speedily.