atom feed74 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.docbookRe: [docbook] Add topic element to Do...
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Norman WalshOct 26, 2006 5:59 am.pgp
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 6:46 am.pgp
Norman WalshOct 26, 2006 7:33 am.pgp
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 8:25 am.pgp
Steve CogornoOct 26, 2006 8:51 am 
Norman WalshOct 26, 2006 9:32 am.pgp
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:17 am.pgp
Yang Tj-ATY010Oct 26, 2006 10:27 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 26, 2006 11:25 am 
Johnson, EricOct 26, 2006 11:40 am 
Sean WhellerOct 26, 2006 12:06 pm 
Melanie KendellOct 26, 2006 4:51 pm 
Johnson, EricOct 26, 2006 5:05 pm 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:02 pm.bin
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:15 pm.bin
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:17 pm.bin
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:25 pm.bin
Chris ChiassonOct 26, 2006 10:28 pm 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 10:38 pm.pgp
dougOct 26, 2006 11:32 pm 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 26, 2006 11:51 pm.bin
dougOct 27, 2006 12:19 am 
Camille BégnisOct 27, 2006 1:22 am 
Elliotte HaroldOct 27, 2006 4:47 am 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 27, 2006 5:07 am.bin
Sean WhellerOct 27, 2006 5:24 am 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 27, 2006 5:26 am.bin
Norman WalshOct 27, 2006 5:26 am.pgp
Norman WalshOct 27, 2006 5:39 am.pgp
Norman WalshOct 27, 2006 5:48 am.pgp
Michael(tm) SmithOct 27, 2006 6:53 am.bin
Jirka KosekOct 27, 2006 6:59 am.bin
Michael(tm) SmithOct 27, 2006 7:28 am.bin
Johnson, EricOct 27, 2006 8:15 am 
Rajal ShahOct 27, 2006 8:32 am 
Johnson, EricOct 27, 2006 8:45 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 27, 2006 8:50 am 
Rajal ShahOct 27, 2006 9:02 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 27, 2006 9:12 am 
Rowland, LarryOct 27, 2006 9:35 am 
Rajal ShahOct 27, 2006 9:35 am 
Dan SandersonOct 27, 2006 9:37 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 27, 2006 9:42 am 
Norman WalshOct 27, 2006 9:58 am.pgp
Elliotte HaroldOct 27, 2006 10:06 am 
Dave PawsonOct 27, 2006 10:13 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 27, 2006 10:13 am 
Steven CogornoOct 27, 2006 10:21 am 
Steven CogornoOct 27, 2006 10:36 am 
Eve L. MalerOct 27, 2006 10:47 am 
Bob StaytonOct 27, 2006 10:54 am 
Bob StaytonOct 27, 2006 11:02 am 
Bob StaytonOct 27, 2006 11:28 am 
Steven CogornoOct 27, 2006 11:29 am 
Steven CogornoOct 27, 2006 11:45 am 
Chris ChiassonOct 28, 2006 12:09 pm 
Michael(tm) SmithOct 28, 2006 12:09 pm.bin
Rowland, LarryOct 28, 2006 12:09 pm 
Steve WhitlatchOct 28, 2006 12:09 pm 
dougOct 28, 2006 12:10 pm 
Elliotte HaroldOct 28, 2006 12:11 pm 
Chris ChiassonOct 28, 2006 1:18 pm 
Jirka KosekOct 28, 2006 1:48 pm.bin
Michael(tm) SmithOct 28, 2006 5:24 pm.bin
Elliotte HaroldOct 28, 2006 5:48 pm 
Jirka KosekOct 29, 2006 3:01 am.pgp
Elliotte HaroldOct 29, 2006 3:17 am 
Jirka KosekOct 29, 2006 3:47 am.pgp
Chris ChiassonOct 29, 2006 9:07 am 
Elliotte HaroldOct 29, 2006 10:55 am 
Bob StaytonOct 29, 2006 11:16 am 
Steven CogornoOct 29, 2006 2:13 pm 
Sean WhellerOct 29, 2006 11:30 pm 
Jirka KosekOct 30, 2006 12:07 am.pgp
Subject:Re: [docbook] Add topic element to DocBook?
From:Steven Cogorno (Stev@Sun.COM)
Date:Oct 27, 2006 10:21:03 am
List:org.oasis-open.lists.docbook

On Oct 27, 2006, at 6:53 AM, Michael(tm) Smith wrote:

Substitute the word "wary" for "afraid". The thing about changes is that they often have unforeseen consequences. For example, we decided to add Task as a child of section, and a year or two later, we've got to figure if/how to allow Task content in places where by design it's currently not permitted.

I'd like to add some clarification to the discussion about task.

On behalf of Sun Microsystems, I proposed the Task element. We use Task extensively in our administration guides to encapsulate procedures along with the prerequisites and examples that are associated with that procedure.

In my proposal, Task was equivalent to a section. Tasks are included in the TOC and tasks can be followed by other sections. Basically, task was intended to be a section, but with the contents more strictly defined than section.

The TC discussed this over several meetings, and either I wasn't clear in my proposal, or it was interpreted differently than we had intended. Task was implemented as a block, not a section level container. Unfortunately, we did not notice this disconnect until after DocBook 4.4 was released and it was too late to change.

Our documents are structured with conceptual and task based information interspersed. Here's an example:

Troubleshooting Installation Issues (chapter) Initial Installation Issues (sect1) [introductory text here] Disk-Related Issues (sect2) To Check IDE Disk for Bad Blocks (task) Using GRUB on X86 Platforms (sect2) To Use Live Upgrade with GRUB (task) [etc.]

The tasks and conceptual information related to that task are presented together. This is not possible in the current DocBook implementation of Task.

In this particular example, the tasks could be contained within the sect3. But, that pushes the task based information (which our system admins tell us is the most important content) down too deep in the hierarchy. This is also awkward for the reader because the document ends up having section titles that serve only to satisfy the structure, not to convey information.

And I don't think there's any risk of DocBook stagnating. It's soundly designed and is meeting the needs of its target user base quite well.

On the whole, I agree with you, with one caveat. DocBook is not currently meeting our needs for task based information.