atom feed54 messages in at.iem.pd-listRe: [PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test
FromSent OnAttachments
Frank BarknechtAug 20, 2010 9:44 am.png
Bernardo BarrosAug 20, 2010 9:58 am 
Miller PucketteAug 20, 2010 10:17 am 
Frank BarknechtAug 20, 2010 10:24 am 
Bernardo BarrosAug 20, 2010 10:29 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 20, 2010 11:10 am 
Bernardo BarrosAug 20, 2010 11:14 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 20, 2010 11:21 am 
Frank BarknechtAug 21, 2010 12:53 am 
Bernardo BarrosAug 21, 2010 10:21 am 
Mathieu BouchardAug 21, 2010 10:38 am 
Mathieu BouchardAug 21, 2010 10:50 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 21, 2010 11:07 am 
Mathieu BouchardAug 22, 2010 9:34 am 
Frank BarknechtAug 23, 2010 4:01 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 23, 2010 10:19 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 23, 2010 10:20 pm 
Miller PucketteAug 24, 2010 1:38 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 9:14 am 
Miller PucketteAug 25, 2010 11:09 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 11:44 am 
Miller PucketteAug 25, 2010 11:49 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 12:39 pm.tcl
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 1:18 pm 
cyrille henryAug 25, 2010 1:30 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 1:57 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 25, 2010 2:04 pm 
Mathieu BouchardAug 25, 2010 2:24 pm 
cyrille henryAug 25, 2010 2:50 pm 
Miller PucketteAug 25, 2010 9:52 pm 
IOhannes m zmoelnigAug 26, 2010 12:26 am 
JackAug 26, 2010 4:07 am 
Roman HaefeliAug 26, 2010 4:20 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 8:52 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 8:57 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 8:59 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 10:48 am.tcl
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 10:53 am 
Miller PucketteAug 26, 2010 11:43 am 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 12:26 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 12:42 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 26, 2010 1:42 pm.patch
Bernardo BarrosAug 26, 2010 1:51 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 27, 2010 9:47 am 
Miller PucketteAug 27, 2010 10:01 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 29, 2010 10:44 am 
Miller PucketteAug 29, 2010 9:16 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 30, 2010 3:04 pm 
Miller PucketteAug 30, 2010 5:30 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerAug 30, 2010 6:41 pm 
Mathieu BouchardSep 5, 2010 2:16 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerSep 5, 2010 8:22 pm 
Mathieu BouchardSep 9, 2010 1:14 pm 
Hans-Christoph SteinerSep 9, 2010 9:57 pm 
Subject:Re: [PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test
From:Bernardo Barros (bern@gmail.com)
Date:Aug 26, 2010 1:51:20 pm
List:at.iem.pd-list

Are you planning some kind of colours for some kind of 'syntax colouring' support for the boxes (message/number/audio gen/video etc.) and cords (audio non-audio)? This should be less problematic lhen the font size issue, shouldn't it?

2010/8/26 Hans-Christoph Steiner <ha@at.or.at>:

Looks like here are the options:

- have boxes fit around fixed font sizes and have different box sizes on each platform (vanilla up til 0.42)

- have font width fit into fixed box sizes and have long texts overrun the bottom of boxes (Pd-extended since 0.40)

- hopefully the best for now, have the width, then height fit into the fixed box sizes, and use fonts that are known to work the best.  I attached a patch which implements this and it seems to work pretty well.  I discovered that the fixed box sizes were different than Pd-extended so I synced them up so layout should be the same everywhere.

 (apply patch with "git am" to accept it as it).

.hc

On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:

OK.. but for 0.43... is there a stopgap?  I can't think of any way to get text editing working (i.e., getting the character you click on to be the one Pd sees you click on) except by going back to status quo.

cheers MIller

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 01:54:15PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

On Aug 26, 2010, at 12:52 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:

My machine is running 8.5... but I don't think it's good to have Pd's default font choice come out all wrong... ideally, it should do something reasonable no matter what the font (well, at least if it's fixed-pitch).  At the very least, Pd has to know the correct font metrics... and it seems now not to.

I should add, given my experience, I don't think this is a realistic goal without major surgery.  Its something I've put a lot of work into trying to get working.  My experience tells me that the best bet is using a default font.

Even better would be making the pd <--> pd-gui communication not deal with pixel values and mouse motion, but instead logical operations. For example, instead of pd knowing anything about the text editing operation, that should happen entirely in the gui. Then once the editing operation is complete, the GUI would send the result to pd.

.hc

Perhaps a solution for cross-platform patching (such as for making help files) could be to say "this will look woerd on other machines unless you use font <blaz> to develope the patch so that you see the canonical sizes.

cheers M

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 04:18:49PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Here is the answer to this font problem:

- use Tcl/Tk 8.5 or newer, Tcl 8.4 is very flawed (see archives for discussion, basically it makes bad guesses and assigns them to the fontname "courier")

- use one of these fonts: {"Courier 10 Pitch" "DejaVu Sans Mono" \     "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono" "Droid Sans Mono" "Andale Mono"

Anything else and you'll have strange results.  In order to have better font support, we need to do some major surgery.

.hc

On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 13:38 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:

Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message boxes with many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and select one above it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).

I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply tells Pd what size the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd could easily expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for those wishing to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the text's actual size anyway.  To be continued...

cheers Miller

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font size as the basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches or so.

I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10" font-size, whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses some different layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong when you load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have not much interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd-x, as I am hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm willing to change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla, but I'd prefer to not do again that with every release or with every new Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10 console font lists and is so much better than the previous ones.

Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have the same boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple versions.  That was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if that's not the case.

.hc

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